Couldn't agree more Mike. If riding gets to be to difficult beginners will not start and if your a rider that is endlessly seking the next challenge you will leave the sport. The best sport in the world will die. As you say try and ride the routes differently and just be pleased to be out on a bike in the country.

Spot on Mike.

As you know from riding them, when we started building the Afan trails 10 or so years ago, we took a simple view.

A trail does not have to have big boulders or steps in to be technical - being up close to trees on every other corner, with the odd rock/root to shimmy around can be more than enough.

The trail will have a nice smooth line that anyone can ride, but the trick is to try and ride it fast - the faster you go, the more you have to duck and dive to get round the trees and rocks, and so the harder it gets.

There are loads of man-made trails now being built that are just too extreme - the builders and a few other skilled riders might be OK with them but the rest struggle.

That isn't just bad for the beginner/intermediate riders, it is also bad for the trail as its condition will deteriate far more quickly. This is because a larger number of riders than normal will effectively be out of control and therefore lock their wheels lots - big ruts and braking bumps will appear quickly as a result.

The product is a trail that costs more to maintain and one that will probably become unviable and therefore simply close a few years after opening.

Just last night I told my GF that I didnt want to goto Bedgebury on the weekend cos I think the XC course is, although fun, not as adrenaline packed, and if I did the northshore I would probably hurt myself...

So i suggested Peaslake/Holmbury, which is alittle bit more exciting without being dangerous for my GF...

Does that make me a bad person?

I agree you can have fun with a little imaginationtho!

I would say that there's one big aspect missing from this piece, which is the fact that you can make something that's both challenging and safe without resorting to the 'just go really fast and the fact that you're traversing a fairly steep slope will make it scary and therefore good' approach. That is the fact that riders of different abilities read and see trails very differently, my mum could ride a bike round most decent bmx tracks without any problems, she wouldn't even notice however that you were meant to jump from one lump to the next. Surely this is a sensible model for the ideal mindset when building these trails. Little lips on odd lines, subtle step-downs, big rocks to ride off just off the natural line. Certainly makes for more of a giggle than 'the slab' or whatever it's called at dalbeattie (or something up that way). Actually that's a good example; if you had a rock like that on the outside of a fairly fast corner, then the idiots and showmen could come in far too fast ride up it and drop back onto whatever line they feel like, everyone else can bimble across the bottom.

Another big issue is the complete lack of a standard as regards trail grading. Caddon bank the same grade as glentress black?? I doubt it.

I don't really disagree with the thrust of 'you can't build man-made trails for the vocal top 5% or so' argument on the whole, but I do feel that saying 'these trails are actually great for you, you're just trying to have your fun in the wrong way' is equally silly.

Perhaps the best thing is to do what a lot of us do anyway, regard these places as an amusing distraction once in a while but not as places to really develop your skills, push or frighten yourself.

Saying "you can have fun on pretty much every trail" is not the same as saying "all trails are equally fun" ;-)

I agree BT, no particular trail is necessarily wrong, and neither is a particualar way of riding that everyone should comform to.

I think Mike's point, and possibly the reason that man-made trails are becoming more and more vertical with bigger obsticles on the trail, is that there is a significant number of people who don't yet realise that there is more than one way to ride and more than one way to see a trail.

As a result the newer man made trails are being built in such a way as to un-intentionally exclude a lot of riders.

There's also the whole "arms race" thing - people buy bigger bikes, trail builders respond with bigger trails, riders decide they need a bigger bike to cope and so on ;-)

All I want in a trail is good narrow singletrack through trees, the odd drop/drop off/jump/bomb hole a lot of switchbacks and berms....I really dont want to come across see-saws, 2" skinnies, and +6 ft drop offs. I will happily leave that to those canadian fellas 'ey!

If people are looking for a challenge, I invite you all to sunny Lincolnshire and put together a 'Killer Loop', or indeed any decent ride that doesn't involve mile after mile of tarmac!

Like the bloke who mention a Mum riding a BMX track...If you want trails to be harder ride them harder.


The boys who made Afan have this sorted, all of it is nice and easy anyone can get around it if you it slowly, as your skill and fitness levels increase so to does the trails difficulty.

Having "come home" to riding local trails again, it's not that they were too easy, I just got bored of riding the same ones.

Now armed with a map, it's all got interesting again but I feel a bit over-biked. I was eying up my friend's rigid SS last night thinking, now that would be ace, hard but fun, super fast in the singletrack and really make these trails give me a rush.

Sometimes faster isn't the answer. Most fun is between scared enough for adrenalin and upright enough not to follow that well trodden path of speed, apex, hospital ;)

Beginners perspective.

On Wednesday i paid a visit to glentress and hired a bike (mine's on order) and driving down my expection was, having previously owned a mountian bike, that i'd be able to tackle the red route but when i got there sense prevailed and i set off on the blue trail from the buzzard car park to slowly introduce myself to modern trail riding. Quickly found out things have moved on exponentially in the last 10 years (technically far more demanding) and that i'll have to put in the hours to become anywhere near competent (which i look forward to).

Point being i could have easily been very daunted because i struggled to cope with the climbing (lacking cycling fitness) and other aspects (unfamiliar bike, technical aspects) and as a result people like me with limited experience could be put off.

If the difficulty of new trails continues to increase putting of new users. Then less new riders = less new investment = fewer/no new trails. Cattering for the masses is the best way to ensure the future of the sport. I'm not saying neglect the 'Topgun' trail riders but proportional representation. Canvase users at centres and see what the need/demand is for.

PS. I hope to get so good i'm complaining about the lack of decent trails.

Think your trails are too easy/boring?

Remove your cossetted arse from the latest 6" travel plush monster, and have a go at riding them on a rigid singlespeed.

Voila! Instant tech.

There was a discussion in another thread about Bedgebury. They have changed the route a bit to make it more accessible to Family riders, which IMO just sucks!, firstly there isnt anything technical to play with (except the north shore)as it is, and now the Red XC route is getting clogged up with people on Hybrids.

I just hope they start creating new trails there. I think as long as trail centres are not exclusively one grade , there will be enough for everyone to have a good time.

I don't want trails to be harder, I want them to be more fun for me to ride. My idea of fun is:

-getting the wheels off the ground by a decent margin.
-going round corners with the wheels sliding.
-being spat into rocky sections.
-riding a downhill once; spotting some lines but not hitting them, riding back round and getting them second time.
-corners where you do have to brake hard to get round them.
-decent size drops (i.e. nowhere near rollable)
-return of the jedi endor style fast between the trees changing of direction paths where to ride it fast you end up with grazed shoulders.
-oo, wallrides too.

What bores me to tears is what a lot of these man-made trails seem to be about, i.e. smooth ,wide , swoopy, no lips, tiny drops, nothing steep (now that's a major bug bear of mine), yes they get harder when they get faster, they just don't get much more fun.

I'm not saying that built trails should fully conform to my ideals, mainly for the reasons mentioned above (aceessability, need for mainenance etc.) but more of them being further in that direction would be nice.

Mike,

the bigger bikes for bigger trails thing is one that worries?/amuses?/weirds? me quite a lot.

Proper dh courses aside, I've not ridden anything where I really think that I'd like to ride a full sus much more than a smallish hardtail with the seat down. yep the fs will probably be quicker, but I don't race and hence I'm more interested in the grin at the end than whether I have to wait 10 seconds or a minute for someone else.

It's also a nightmare for trail builders as it means that less skillful people will arrive going quicker, hence more braking bumps, more accidents etc.

What bores me to tears is what a lot of these man-made trails seem to be about, i.e. smooth ,wide , swoopy, no lips, tiny drops, nothing steep (now that's a major bug bear of mine), yes they get harder when they get faster, they just don't get much more fun.

There are plenty of natural trails that cover your criteria, why don't you seek them out and accept that trail centres are generally aimed at catering for the masses and IMO great fun to ride.

Thing is BT, your DH tastes are already catered for. Newbies are not going to go to Fort William and try out riding for the first time, but they might go to Afan or Dalby.

riding a downhill once; spotting some lines but not hitting them, riding back round and getting them second time.

Dont you mean riding downonce in 30 seconds, and pushing your bike back up to try a second time?

For once I agree with DK! Dalby imo is great in that a more experienced rider can hammer the trails and still feel a bit challenged i.e. take a 2 foot drop off instead of the smooth line next to it. Equally there's nothing there which a beginner couldnt happily ride. It's a tricky balance to maintain granted.

For once I agree with DK!

You find me disagreeable ?