So does that mean I can try get hold of a 180mm centre-lock rotor and the post-mount IS adapter thigamy for the deore brakes n put em on my new XTs?

If so: Hurrah! (well predicted)

Should be able to, yes.

dual control spreading throughout the entire range then. can you still buy rapidfire?

yes

"We fully expect this announcement to trigger a whole new DC/Low-Normal debate, but allow us to head it off at the pass by mentioning that there'll still be Deore High-Normal mechs and RapidFire+ shifters, as well as separate brake levers in cable and hydraulic flavours."

ah, so if i had read and not quickly scanned the article i would have seen that;)

but at least i as the first to kick it of!

It seems kind-of odd that the almost unconditionally praised Hollowtech II system doesn't trickle down to Deore while the comparatively controversial rapid-rise mechs and flippy shift shifter/brake levers do.

"Hydraulic discs come with long-awaited 180mm rotor option"

Yay, w00t and much houpla! :)

center lock hubs, so what do you buy if you want to run non-shimano discs??

probably will still make 6 bolt hubs for OME, wouldn't want to lose that lucrative part of the market, while trying to ensure that one shimano component means you have to buy shimano everything else.

"center lock hubs, so what do you buy if you want to run non-shimano discs??"

Buy the older-style hubs. Or buy adapters. Or buy someone else's hubs. Or use other calipers on Shimano rotors. Or use Shimano brakes ;-)

I like Centerlock.

Why oh why can't people get it?? Since the new XTR groupset came out in 2003 and with every new groupset since people still want to moan about centrelock/rapid rise/dual control. The same things get said time and time again.

Nearly always the loudest criticism comes from those who understand it least (trying hard not to use the word ignorant). The truth is that Shimano drives new technology forward, people moan because they are scared of change, eventually get to try it for themselves rather than reading some journo's view and realise it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Shimano always supply alternatives for the "slow to catch on", i.e. 6 bolt hubs, rapidfire pods, low normal mechs etc. The same discontent was there when they switched from thumbshifters to rapidfire!!

Because Shimano don't have the marketing generated image of some other inferior component manufacturers or all the "right" riders shamelessly endorsing their products on every page of the mags doesn't mean it's not the best stuff out there. I've used dual control and for xc it's awesome (although I actually have an SRAM X7 shifter on my bike coz it also rules). Their brakes are the most reliable, easy to set up and maintain on the planet, with fantastic power, modulation and lever feel. They are the best brakes available - full stop. And if you want to run 6 bolt (as I do) then you can, by buying their 6 bolt rotors. Although this means additional cost the whole system is still cheaper than equivalent Hope models. XT calipers can be bought with 6 bolt rotors as standard instead of centrelock ones anyway.

Rant over. Sorry. I just had to fight Shimano's corner because it really is the market leader and they know what they are doing.

I didn't like dual control, so i bought SRAM

That's the wonder of choice

I liked it for XC, but I don't do an huge amount of XC on my 4X bike. As and when I build another XC bike I'll use dual control. Choice is a wonderful thing.

Can't resist trotting out my list again:

Biopace rings
IG chains
Roller clutch hubs
Pedal bearings in the end of cranks
1cm pitch chains
Bar end shifter remotes

and all those other Shimano innovations that the biking consumer rejected.

If you like Shimano stuff buy it and don't worry about the corporate strategy. If you don't buy something else.

"Biopace rings"

Those the eliptical thingys? I remember those from years ago and they seemed a good idea, though I never really used them.....

What was so wrong with them? (not a defensive statement, just want to know).

My LBS has a Demo Set of Rotor Cranks in tempted to try them out for abit, but really don't like the £600 cost if I like them.

X-Commie
Biopace rings felt OK up to cadences of about 85 rpm beyond which I for one found them hard to spin smoothly and tiring.

Of the innovations mentionned in the thread:

I think centre-lock is fine and infact similar to Hope's original system.

Dual control is great on the road and having it as an alternative on MTBs is positive.

I have personally had trouble with two Rapid-rise mechs and hope the idea joins the rejects list.

Centre-lock is excellent, dual control is exellent, low-normal/rapid-rise sucks.

IMO :-)

Centre lock is a good idea, but pretty pointless as there was a perfectly good 6 bolt standard already in place.

Dual control makes total sense if you are a Shimano designer after greater component intergration and better ergonomics. It makes less sense if you are a typical bike owner who would rather have a choice of brakes, and doesn't really mind the shifters the way they are now.

Rapid Rise makes sense if you are a pro-racer. Why its trickling down to lower groupsets I really can't understand as there are no real advantages to a novice user.

In short three solutions to problems that didn't exist in the first place.

Actually looking at John's list almost every item on there fits that description. I suspect the problem is that Shimano's staff are all very clever and inventive, but they design stuff that sounds good when explaining it to a boardmember in an air conditioned office. What the buyers want is stuff that is simple, tough, and will work in the freezing cold, covered in mud and halfway up a mountain in the middle of nowhere........

torx key rotor bolts blow goats and good riddence to them.