Lush! I bet the new Ti Pipedream is as light as most hardtails. Not too sure about the shock position though, it looks a little vulnerable and stuck out in the open.

I bet the new Ti Pipedream is as light as most hardtails.

Did you read the words at all? ;-)

So, this is what's been holding you up from writing the review on that Ticross, Mike?


;-)

Either way, that Pipedream looks pretty well sorted. What are the angles though?

Hmmm, not sure I'm qualified to comment but I'd be more tempted by a "Lighter than average 6" travel bike" than an average or heavy 4.5"er

If that makes any sense?

At least all the pivots appear to be in sensible places. I don't think comparing it with a crude single pivot bike like the Turner is really fair. ;-)

I don't really see the point in a Ti full suspension frame. Ti is a great material for HT's because it can absorb buzz better than just about anything else, plus its qualities are a great mix of strength and light weight.
But when you have 6" travel that doesn't matter. So whats the point?

At the kind of price it's going to be you would expect a exotic brand (Turner, Nicolai etc).
The weight is excessive, more than most 6" frames I would bet, even burly ones like a Cove G-Spot.

In terms of ride quality, prestige and value what does this have to offer that would make it better than a Cove Hustler or a Santa Cruz Blue LT?

This appears to fill a demand that I don't understand, want a turner, buy a turner with a design evolution and great customer service. Want Ti buy a Ti hartail, better still buy one of each, a Turner and a Ti hardtail. Looks ugly, is heavy and doesn't have the same pedigree as Turner, Yeti, SC, etc etc in terms of an understanding of suspension design. Plus variable travel frames always compromise in every setting, so you end up with two, three or four mediocre settings rather than one well developed travel setting. Stick with hardtails guys, that FS bike is just a pipedream. (See what I did there??)

Named after a reasonible scottish mountain, just south of clen coe, thought I knew the name, climbed that first scotland climb.

Don't see the point of Ti on a Full Suss, unless it makes it super light and strong personally.

I don't beleive it, I'm going to totaly agree with you Dyl ;)

Having actually read the words, I am failing to see the advantage of a Ti full suss frame, other than the look at me how cool I am with my ti full suss fram factor.
As said, because you can't manipulate the tubes with titanium and add stength where you need it, to get a stong enough frame it needs to be over built an hence heavy. My opion whould be why bother when a cheaper and better (ligher and stonger)frame can be made with aluminum, or for real light weight bling go carbon.

Maybe they could save a pound and build it cheaper in Aluminium


I take it's named after the Aonach Mor where the DH and XC courses are next to Ben Nevis

Without wanting to overstate it, I also don't see the point, to be honest. Obviously, Ti is springy (or can be), and light (or can be), compared to aluminium. But when you're talking about plain-gauge tubing, it's really going to be noticeable in neither aspect. And in fact, with an aluminium back end (and a shock between your legs), how useful is a springy front triangle anyway?

Don't get me wrong - I'd happily take it off your hands... - but to me it just seems to be filling a niche that doesn't exist. It's almost as if the titanium is just there for exclusivity, because the way it's worked doesn't seem to influence the weight or ride in a Ti-type way. Shame.

here is a question, how easy is scadnium to manipulate, whould that be a better option for the frame then titanium.

But as everyone has said, Titainium full sus, what is the point of using a light weight felxible material, then having to use more of it because its to weak in plain gauge and loosing the flexibility becuase its got shocks on both ends. I think other riders whould look at someone who bought this and just wonder why they spent the money. also i feel people want more setup control, so travel between 3.5 and 6 with an adjustable shock position. Like my beloved rotwild has.

also 2.3 tyres are getting pretty regular on bikes, larger mud clearance is always good.

The bike seems to me to be a jack of all trades in that it masters none. If it was Ti, 4” travel and super light then great. If it was Ti, average weight, longer travel and comparatively cheap then again, great. As it is, I can’t see any advantages that outweigh the disadvantages. The Ti front triangle clearly ups the cost of the frame and if anything this probably spoils the bike.

Clearly this project is headed up by a man. If a woman had come up with the concept, she’d have admitted she was wrong and binned it by now!

Sorry Pipedream, I do not get it either. Looks like a bike they are making because they feel they ought.

Why buy Ti? Well it is light, supple in a hardtail and last a long time. But too flexible for the rear triangle so they use aluminum, and the rest has to be beefed up and now lightness is lost. Finally the pivots are not apparently well protected so reliability may be an issue.

Muddled thinking, even though it may be decent value it is not so cheap.

If you want to make a Ti suspension bike why not a really strippped down lightweight 'softail' along the lines of a 'Dale Scalpel perhaps?

agree, 2 - 3" softtail travel using the rear stays as springs would seam to suit Ti, could make a really light race frame then.

"If you want to make a Ti suspension bike why not a really strippped down lightweight 'softail' along the lines of a 'Dale Scalpel perhaps?"

Funny - I was thinking exactly the same thing as I wrote my post. Thought I might get shot down though... Ti would surely be the best material for a softail - strong and springy. But s/t bikes seem to have dried up in recent years - I guess because f/s technology has moved on so sharply since the Epic was launched.

Quick question - what's the durability of softails like?

Nick

As long as the flex is well within the elastic limits of the material, no reason why flexi stays should last any less time than the rest of the frame, IIRC some of the Trek range used flexy stays on FS bikes???

I had a Scalpel for years, the flexi carbon stays never broke despite systematic abuse. The stays were laterally very rigid all things considered, maybe a snag with conventional profiled Ti tubes?

"can't see the point in a Ti full sus".
The reason you will find for most buyers of Ti bikes is often not weight, but because owners buy a frame that will last a long,long time.
Why do some people buy new bikes or frames? Sometimes its because you get bored with a particular bike/frame and simply would like a change. Ti owners tend to keep their steeds for years because they just dont wear out or end up looking tired. My litespeed frame is 5 yrs old now and looks the same as it did the day I bought it.
The price of the pipedream is amazing considering you would pay that for a basic Ti hardtail from litespeed.
I would buy a Ti full sus frame.
Why? for all of the above and because I would still be riding the same bike 7 - 10 yrs later, albeit with a few upgrades.

Flexi-stays are becoming quite normal.

Trek, Orbea, Cannondale and Merida use them. There are sure to be more too. Some on FS bike, some on HTs. Carbon is the prefered material though.

A good use of Ti in a FS bike would be the Litespeed senawee. Very light, short travel bouncer using the potential of titanium.

Titanium does indeed make a very good matierial for softails, Dekerf made a lovelly one :)