Dont see the angles are a big deal as a 5 Spot Turner are 69 HA and 73.5 SA and 0.5 " longer top tube. An Orange 5 is 70 and 74 but in real life more like the Turner with a 205 mm C to A fork.
I think the main thing with the steep seat tube is that it swings the bb back and ones weight forward, it also stops the riders weight slopping off the back of the bike on hitting a bump going uphill, which happens with slacker angles eg 71 SA.
I see there is no real reason to make the angles of a xc/ttrail bike very different from a Hardtail xc bike ie 69-70 HA and 73-74 SA

The BB doesn't swing back - the rear wheel's in the way ;-) It pushes the rider's weight forward, though, yes.

I rode this very bike and liked it emensly to. The angles are slightly unusual when you first get on it but as soon as you are in the woods they make perfect sence. My only other thought was that the bb was a little high when matched to the head angle it could have been even better in the twisty stuff if it was maybe .25 of an inch lower. I also had trouble getting the rear shock to feel quite right it either seemed to pack down or be to quick over the bigger bumps and i couldn't quite find a happy compromise. I think this is more the shock than the design of the frame though. Overall a very good ride it felt light, fast and nimble with generous suspension travel. This bike could easily be used for a bit of XC racing long epics and would cope with Alpine style riding.

I've had a Helius CC for over a year now and love it. A tip - get the anodised version - mine looks brand new even after several thousand miles.

The geometry only feels strange after jumping to it from my rigid bike. I had 100mm forks on it till recently and it steepens the head angle up a bit. I've now got Rockshox Revelations set at 130mm and they're also great.

I DON'T like the DT shock - too difficult to set up. It either feels like a rigid bike or blows through all its travel too easily. However, the bike can be ordered with a variety of shock options. In hindsight, the Fox would have been a better option.

The Helius CC is my own bike of choice (with a Rohloff) from the Nicolai range though I'm really enjoying my Argon FR Rohloff as a winter bike at the moment (we're hoping to get one of those to Mike for a review later in the year). There's not much to add to Mike's review.

Hugo - the raw angles on paper don't tell the whole story. Take one out for a ride and you'll understand.

Simon - the BB *is high* in 5" setting but the bike will handle anything Wales or the Lake District can throw at it. On those sort of trails the high bb is really useful. On smoother ground (24hour courses or southern woodland singletrack) there's little need for 5" of travel. Drop the fork and rear down to ~100mm and the bb height drops too. I used to ride a bike with a fairly low BB and whilst it carved well through singletrack pedal impacts became a problem upcountry. The Helius is easily tuned for where you're riding.

We've got on well with the DT shock over the last few years but the Rock Shox Pearl is a looking to be a great alternative - I'm going to give it a try on my Helius over the next month or two.

It just seems too expensive to me, i cant see where the £1500 goes on this frame.

I suppose it'll be exclusive at least, but it wont sell in numbers due to the price.

It's expensive yes and probably doesn't ride any better than a Specialized FSR. However, if you like lovely welding and really nicely finished stuff, you really can't get any better. Also, I've not had to touch the bearing yet which is more than be said for my old Trek Fuel - about 4 months was what I got out the bearings.

The colour of the test bike in the photos doesn't seem really do the bike justice - you have to see one in the flesh to appreciate it. Have a look at www.nicolai.net

Having had a helius cc for a year and a turner 5 spot now, the turner is waaaay better. Lower CofG on the turner is better, the DT shock is cr@p, blows through or is too hard, more rebound clicks than any shock I have ever seen. Anodising is great, I'd like to see you mark it up. What simon says is rubbish IMO, if you buy a 5" bike you want it right, variable travel bikes never excel, they're there to hedge bets. I'd like to see a dedicated 5" bike from Nicolai. I had a RP3 on mine after the DT, which was better. You can tell the difference between the spherical bushings and the Fox bushings by the way, by quite a margin too. Welding is the best by far that I have ever seen. But it wasn't that good as a bike otherwise I would have kept it...

Shop I bought it from was a turner dealer, I went in there to buy a Turner and bought a Nicolai. A year later I just went to a dedicated Turner dealer and bought the right bike.

variable travel bikes never excel

I think "rarely" or "don't always" would be fairer than "never". The usual problem with multi-travel bikes is trying to eke too much travel out of not enough shock, which isn't a problem that the Helius suffers from. But no one bike is going to suit everyone - if you want a 5in travel bike with a low BB then you might want to look elsewhere...

Surely, with the Nicolai being such a unique product in terms of its geometry and construction, it's a case of 'horses for courses' as opposed to just saying 'it's crap'?

I'm looking at a 5" travel bike for riding in conditions varying from Wales to chairlifting in the Peaks – the bikes out there are varied and wonderful, ranging from the lighter end of the spectrum including things like the 5Spot (which I've ridden and is an amazing bike) to the Helius FR (which, if I'm honest, is probably the bike I'll be going for with a lighter build). I can't help thinking that if you are an experienced rider with a decent product knowledge and a few different bikes under your bum then you'll have a definite idea of what works for you and what doesn't, which then gives you an idea of what product traits you'll be after when reading reviews. I've ridden a Helius CC and it is a very different beast to a 5Spot, but if you've got the cash to be seriously looking at either bike then I'd imagine you'd know exactly what you'll want out of it and these two, IMO, tick different boxes making a direct comparison a little unfair.

Peaks? Read 'Alps'... D'oh! Unless there's been some construction round Ladybower I know nothing about...

Stop being so sensible, Pimp ;-)

Sorry.

*blushes*

Rob H: Ur bik iz saracenin.

;-)

When it comes down to spending on bikes like Turners, S Cruz, Ellesworth, Nicolai it can come down to little things - in my case not being able to get a test ride on a Turner for a few months when I needed a new bike turned out to be one good reason why I didnt end up having a Turner.

Some little things with the Nicolai/DT Swiss combination:

The whole thing has been maintenance free for twelve months
Anodizing is a no additional cost extra which compares well with Santa Cruz
The rear drop out is a pain the backside but you learn the knack after 12 months!
In winter you dont want more than 2.1's in the back
The stickers are cr@p!

But its an awsome bike and if you get a chance to try one I dont think you will be disappointed!

It all depends what you're looking for. I tend to use my bike for a variety of purposes. This also involves riding it on the road for a significant amount of time to reach the trails. I therefore wanted a bike that:

1. could be locked out
2. had adjustable travel
3. was light

The Helius CC ticks all these boxes. In fact, I rarely reach for the lockout - even on the road.

I like the 5 Spot a lot and considered it along with a Santa Cruz Blur. In the end I went for the Nicolai and haven't been disapointed.

I have a Helius CC and have done since Sept 04. This is without doubt the best bike I’ve ever ridden. Mine is in anodised black and despite many attempts to destroy the bike it still looks new and works beautifully.

I’ve ridden this bike in Wales, Scotland, the Alps and Bristol! And it just eats trails and loves climbs. I can’t imagine having any other bike. At the time when I was looking for a new bike I tried a Turner 5 spot and just could not get on with it whereas the Nicolai just worked perfectly. The best bit was specking the bike. I went completely mental it was great fun. One thing that worked for me was ditching the rear shock. I now have springs front and rear and it is a different bike, even better than before!!

My only grip is the mud clearance at the back. I run 1.8 and narrow 2.1 and I still managed to stop the wheel with the amount of mud I’ve collected. But I can live with that because the bike is soooooo good.

On rear mud clearance one option is to use the rear 'chainstays' from a Helius FR on a CC. CC travel, a slight weight penalty, but clearance for a 2.6 tyre or more mud clearance with something narrower. We've not done one like that in a while but it's a good option.

Simon,

What's the cost for this?

Is it just the chainstays or the complete back-end that's required?

Thanks for the tip Simon, hadn't thought of that. The mud issue is only a prob here in Bristol around the Timberland Trail/Leigh Woods everywhere else I cycle does not seem to bother the bike!

Thanks

Mail us direct if you're interested. In the past it was a no-cost option when ordering a bike. Aftermarket it's probably in the "more than you'd hoped/less than you feared" category. The frame would need to be shipped back to the factory to ensure everything was perfectly aligned. You could combine it with a back to new refurb - all new bearings, powdercoat...