Are they still trusting us Brits with the Nitrous then ;-)

Dosent look changed for 07 on their website.

Hard to get excited about bikes with all the sophistication of a door with linkage driven spring to keep it shut. Mr Turner should move to Europe where they don't give patents to people for unequal quadrangles. It seems really sad that a man that pioneered bicycle suspension designs that work really well can't use them.

Is the Flux still only available in that horrid gold ano then?

Whatcha taliking about John?

From what i have seen of Turner bikes they work

Turners used to be four bars with a chainstay pivot. Now they're just faux bars with a seat stay pivot i.e. single pivot. To make the classic four-bar Turner for the US market would require the Horst patent licence from Specialized which Turner no longer use for some reason.

Edit: I'm not saying they don't work 'OK'. But as with any low-pivot single pivot design chain tension closes up the rear traingle under load which added to the rider weight going onto the pedal at the same time produces lots of bob (especially using the big ring). I own both designs and the proper four bar climbs significantly better. Less wind up and spin, and less bob.

I thought there was also a problem with Ellsworth's patent. Not sure of the details

If it works it can have a pivot anywhere he likes for all i care. Surely thats all that matters in respect of the horst link.

And turner bikes arent just about performance of the suspension. They also have a reliability i have yet to see from other manufacturers and customer service that i second to none.

I know what yer saying about him not being able to use a system that he is primerily responsible for but his frames are still excellent

If you want a sorted, reliable single pivot buy a Kona.

Not from what i have seen

OK then buy a Trek. You know they'll replace frame components for as long as you're capable of breaking them.

Bollocks and you really ought to know it......

Turner have had people blind testing the old and new style rear link for a whole year now and no one spotted the difference.
This should be no surprise, after all its fundamentally the same frame. Moving the pivot deviates the axle path by just a couple of mms. All other factors are the identical and hence they ride the same.
Basically the rest is a load of 4-Bars must be better twaddle rehashed from MBR

You'd buy a front-wheel-drive Ferrari Dr. And I don't read MBR, just the Specialized blurb. :) Turner probably get people to test bikes with platform shocks that make both designs as unyielding as each other. With a lightly damped compliant shock the difference is obvious.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT


:¬)

i own a turner and i have read all the pros and cons of four bar and faux bar..at the end of the day will your average trail rider notice a blind bit o difference..i,ts all techy pish talk anyway..

To make the classic four-bar Turner for the US market would require the Horst patent licence from Specialized which Turner no longer use for some reason.

The Specialized licence wasn't the problem. Ellsworth went after them for ICT licensing too. Dave Turner couldn't be bothered with it all. His chainstay pivot had gradually moved so close to the rear axle over the years anyway that it was hardly doing anything to modify the axle path.

The Specialized licence wasn't the problem. Ellsworth went after them for ICT licensing too. Dave Turner couldn't be bothered with it all. His chainstay pivot had gradually moved so close to the rear axle over the years anyway that it was hardly doing anything to modify the axle path.

So are you saying that the Horst link doesn't work, or that in order for it to work it has to be below & away from the axle (ICT)?

B0ll0x to that, just tell us what works, that would be a start. Can platform shocks really replace a decent design?

Cheers.

So are you saying that the Horst link doesn't work, or that in order for it to work it has to be below & away from the axle (ICT)?

Depends what you mean by "work". A chainstay pivot is just one aspect of the design - not all four-bars ride the same. The closer to the rear axle it is, the less effect it will have on the rear axle path.

B0ll0x to that

To what?

, just tell us what works, that would be a start.

Yeah, 'cos I'm at your beck and call.

Can platform shocks really replace a decent design?

No. They can hamper some designs.

Pro Pedal being on, ruins my new frame ( GT ID5 with a RP3 ), MBR Test had too much Pro Pedal To they hated it.


Just to clear it up, all 4bar setups have a fixed chainstay axle point ?? ( unlike VPP's ), if so don't see it being much different to be honest.

Personally, except for the Turner, I can't stand 4bars they don't suite me at all.

I like my burner '04 (HL). I think it's marvellous :)

Yeah, 'cos I'm at your beck and call.

Sorry, my post came across wrong, it wasn't directed at you specifically.
All I meant to point out is there is so much guff written about different suspension designs, that its confusing & all I/we really need to know is if any given design works or not.
Given the consistently rave reviews that all specialized's get, I would imagine that the Horst does, so why change it.

Cheers.