Anyone had any good/bad experiences with CRC building wheels, they seem to make a big puff of it on their web-site, but I want cold hard evidence from anyone who's done it.

I was thinking about going 07 Crossmax SL (they look cute and are da-wheels apparently, but they are expensive).
I quite like the idea of Hope Pro2 with DT spokes laced to XM321 or DT 5.1.

I'm 196Lbs on a Flux and need to stiffen up the back end as it get squirmy, the Bonty RaceLites don't seem to be up to the job (fast swoopy single track, wheels on the ground most of the time, I'm no jump-jock).

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

I asked the same question six weeks ago or so, mostly positive replies. I'm very happy with my Hope ProII/DtSwiss comp/XM819 set up from CRC, so yes fine after a months use, very stiff wheel set up BTW (I also wanted a stiffer rear ooer!) :-)

Those Crossmax SLs would look sweet on a Flux though, they would suit you if you're a wheels on the ground kid aswell ;-)

My crc wheels are still going strong a year on. Mine both came next day aswell, so I would expect some people have concerns about it.
Off into the rain now =[

The standard of wheel building from CRC is pretty good now. A year or 2 back they used to ship some of the slackest wheels I've ever seen.

I'm not sure whether they stress relieve the wheels after building though, so long term straightness and spoke reliability might be an issue. I bought my last few sets of wheels from CRC, but I dismantled and rebuilt them myself to make sure everything was right (And to line up the hub logo with the valve hole for that custom wheel feeling) as there's no more convenient way for me to get my hands on all the parts for a wheel with the correct spoke lengths.

Doing your own stress relieving on the wheel after you get it should be enough to ensure it's reliable - look up sheldonbown.com for details on how to do this.

i've got the proII's with 321's from crc and so far they've been great. hammered them round coed y brennin a couple of weeks ago and they loved it :)

Have had 321's on hope XC since last christmas and are still true and the spoke tension is still fine dispite taking a beating...
Same goes for my 717's on the HT they are still true after 2 years one of them is still true dispite the deore hub disintegrating inside (since replaced by a 717 on hope XC from CRC..)
Just been discussing a new wheel with someone on-line and apparently Merlins wheel build quaility has dropped off recently. Not experienced it myself but surely someone will confirm/ deny this. Stiff in leeds used to also build good solid wheels but they wont use black spokes

Black spokes are more prone to fatigue failure than silver ones... If I was building wheels for a living I also wouldn't use black spokes (Or would warn anyone who wants them that the wheel isn't likely to be as reliable as a silver spoked wheel).

The reason for this seems to be that the coating used to make the spoeks black has a vastly different stiffness to the metal under it, leading to stress building up between the coating and the spoke surface as the wheel is stress cycled, bringing on fatigue failure much earlier then when no coating is present.

"Black spokes are more prone to fatigue failure than silver ones... If I was building wheels for a living I also wouldn't use black spokes (Or would warn anyone who wants them that the wheel isn't likely to be as reliable as a silver spoked wheel).

The reason for this seems to be that the coating used to make the spoeks black has a vastly different stiffness to the metal under it, leading to stress building up between the coating and the spoke surface as the wheel is stress cycled, bringing on fatigue failure much earlier then when no coating is present."

I've always been lead to believe this is a myth and is actually total bollocks unless the stresses you're putting the spoke under are far greater than anything a wheel build would do to it.

I asked my bro-in-law about it and would tend tro believe what he says as he's a metalurgist.

It depends on the coating. It's a well known problem with anodised aluminium parts as the aluminium oxide is much harder than the Al it's grown on, leading to very high local stress at the interface between materials (This is why anodised aluminium bike frames are so rare - most companies know that they're dodgy so they save the anodising to parts with low stress or keep the anodising as thin as possible).

This is why painting is used to protect aluminium rather than anodising for highly stressed parts - That's why you don't see anodised planes.

For a bike example, look at Mavic's products. They hard anodise their lower end rims, but paint their higher end ones as they are running nearer the limits of the materials being used leaving less of a factor of safety. Any aluminium spoked wheel they make has painted spokes rather than anodised too as the spokes are where the highest varying stress resides.

If you think in terms of the bulk material performance based on the loaded cross section of the spoke you'll never get spoke failure. This doesn't explain how many bike parts fail at low stress levels compared to the peak stress the parts experienced - by that logic if the part survived a certain load once without damage, then it can't fail at lower loads than that.

All that's needed for a fatigue crack to initiate is a cyclic localised high stress as can be created by the stiffness mismatch between the bulk metal and its coating. Once the crack has started, the tip of the crack will create its own high stress allowing the crack to propagate through the material until there isn't enough cross section left in the material to support the load and the part fails visibly. That's why you don't see sharp edges, sudden cross section changes and tight corners on load bearing parts either, they act as stress risers too...

It really depends on what the spokes are coated with - If it's a layer of paint then it's not a problem as the paint won't be stiff enough to change the surface condition...

Never had a problem in 5yrs of using crc wheels. Also never snapped a black spoke either.

I must be lucky :-)

It's not a common event these days thanks to better quality control, better initial design and better materials. Depending on the wheelbuild the spokes you use, your mileage and how smooth you are over stuff you may never break spokes at all.

Most spoke failures are due to the chain hopping inside the cassette under power (Leading to my favourite gripe about CRC wheels - and those built almost everywhere else too), the spokes that see extra tension when the chain is under load should be laced to the inside of the hub flange at the drive side of the rear hub.

If they're not laced this way then when the chain hops inside the cassette while you're pedalling, the spokes will guide the chain to jam further towards the hub than if the spokes that lose tension are laced to the outside of the flange. On fixed gear bikes lacing the other way is recommended as the chain is more likely to come off while the bike is in overrun rather than under power.

If my head wasnt hurting before it is now ;-)



# goes and makes hot lemon beechams#

I'm actually with Cormac on this, as from my own observations I've seen this, ofcourse when I claimed it I got laughed at.


No idea, about how the spokes are even made black though.

Merlin are losing the plot on the last wheel i had from them sadly :(

I'm worried about all this 'black will break' shit.

Is this really the case or is this a proven fact?

Paint doesn't last very long and I simply can't be having silver spokes on a black disc-only rim, it'd be sacrilage!



And yes, call me a tart if you will, but we all like to look cool on our pride and joy.

My front wheels got silver spokes, with black rims, DIY build the lengths matches and who cares!!!


( he says looking on CRC for a new front wheel )

A friend's just got some gold Hope XCs on black XM 321s with silver spokes. The only reason he didn't get black spokes was the extra £6.

Looks shit IMO.

And they were made by Merlin. Wasn't impressed with the build myself, quite 'untrue'.

Had my XM321 on XTs, for about 4 months now, they are still true and smooth, I've had no problems what so ever...

Nope, tis true then Merlin have lost it :(


Eying up a new Pro2 + DT 5.1 rim I think ( with black, Single butted spokes ), £88 or something, for the front, keeps me open for 20mm conversion easily then.

Woah, thanks for all the responses people.
Sorry not to dip in earlier but I was at the show. I spoke to one of the guys at CRC and told them about this posted question and he had no worries. Said the CRC wheel builders are now good. He opted for silver spokes but I think it was for aesthetic reasons rather than black-is-bad. He didn't mention any stress issues.
Anyway, it looks like Hope Pro II, on DT 5.1 with a silver spokes. With the money I saved over the Crossmax SL's I'll fit discs and a rear set and still save a bunch. Then I can use my Bonty's with Panaracer 1.9 Trailrakers for the oh-so-slow muddy stuff we are all looking forward to.

So- a huge thank-you to all of you, such advice you could never get from any mag./supplier/LBS with so many beds to feather. A forum like this is so democratic.
Brilliant, I'd buy you all beers at the Cycle Show but I've already been, damn it!