No, it's not bull, I said possible, not actual. Until a direct comparison is made, neither you or I have no way of knowing. The torch I quoted has been independently shown to have a tight beam, which some prefer as a helmet light to give good reach, whilst still giving 'close quarters' light when looking close up. It also has a flat discharge curve for over 2.5hrs with an appropriate battery before giving you a warning as it tails off in the last 20mins.
The Seoul P4 they use is claimed to give 240lm at 1000ma, at the emitter. Exposure claim 3 hours on 'MaXx' from a 2300mAh battery (in the manual). At 1000mA that battery will last 2.3 hrs, absolute tops, from full to cutout, no driver losses, no step down to medium or low output for another hour. So there is no way that the Joystick LED is driven at maximum amps for 3 hours. Theoretically (no real world losses), it could run at approx 750mA for 3 hours to cutout. Then you have optic losses, typically 10-15% for a good quality optic from someone like Ledil or Polymer Optics. Actual lumen output is most likely 150-170lm, a long way off the claimed 240. In addition, a riding mate has an '06 joystick, and it doesn't appear that much diferent to mine, maybe a bit less floody light. Exposure are being lazy, at best, by just quoting the LED mfr's emitter maximum output. At worst, well, you can decide.
You mention optics, the torch has a smooth reflector and AR glass, no optics there. Using AR glass and a decent reflector, transmission of 90%+ is perfectly possible. Output is claimed at 220lm, I can't verify actual output of the EagleTac, but a Q5 XPE at 700ma should give 200lm, the test I have seen suggests it is run higher at 850mA. If so, I would expect it to be 180-200lm actual. Another independent test with a lumen meter puts a different Eagletac at around 10% less output than claimed.
My Joystick runs on high for about 2.5hrs after 18 months regular usage at least once a week for, say, 45 weeks in the year. I cannot (in theory) replace that battery, so the light will be approaching the end of its useable life after 4-5 years as the battery just won't be able to take a full charge, perhaps 50-60% if I'm lucky. That will be many, many years before the LED packs up. The torch battery can be replaced and will continue to be useful. You can also swap batteries to extend your ride too.
The torch I quoted costs £43, add two 18650's, a charger and a lockblock. So for £70-£90 (depending on charger and cell quality), considerably less than the (retail) £160 Joystick. So an extra 65g fo £70-90 less.
I don't have an Eagletac, their agents or have any connection to them. I am drawing attention to this as a possible alternative to the Joystick, which I am less than enamoured with after seeing things like the Fenix LD20 and Trustfire TR801. I stick to my critique of the Joystick. It simultaneously manages to be a cleverly designed bike light and an overpriced, mediocre torch with a limited useful life.
Joystick on your head and (hope vision) insert any model here on your bars and hey presto jobs a good one, back of the net, period, skip to the end, fullstop.
I've got a fenix for up top but I'd rather have a Joystick having borrowed a couple from mates. You can pick the Maxx2 up for £120-130 these days which for ease of use, quality of the unit & materials and excellent UK back-up is more than fair IMHO.
With the new piggy back units you can extend run times without messing about changing batteries too.
There's an awful lot to be said for stuff 'designed for purpose' - those lock-blocks are hardly secure & the zip tie/inner tube/duck tape options are plain messy & damned inconvenient.
IMO they are still on the expensive side, I would like to see how much of the cost is production and R&D and how much is actual profit, but at the end of the day (see what I did there) if you have the money its worth it for trouble free ease of use.
Most of the torch people seem to have drawers full of the things trying to find one that works, I doubt repeatedly buying cheap failures is really that economical.
Yeah, you can't fail the Joystick bought a flood damged piggy back of CRC and it's just brilliant.
Plus I decided to see what happened if you unscrewed it...and theres what looks like a perfectly replaceable battery in there so god knows what people mean when they say you can't
BHB - congrats on getting an accessible one, mine was glued up at both ends from the start and now blathered in epoxy after the end broke off, still works though. Assuming I haven't found a replacement in the future, I will snap off the end and replace the cell.
At £100, the Joystick would be a much better buy and I would take it over the torch, the bike friendly features and even beam would be worth the lower output.
If the Joystick ran at LED design maximum, its claimed output would probably be within 10-15% of actual. That would be more consistent with the claims of Fenix, EagleTac and others. As already discussed, I don't see how that is possible. If the Joystick sits between my estimated output figures, at say 160lm, that is 1/3 less than claimed. Not everyone overestimates equally, you only have to look at the 'claimed' output of DX P7's to see that.
Manufacturers can substantiate their claims, it is possible to measure lumen count fairly accurately, something that torches are subjected to by interested individuals. That would cost and I see no real benefit, it would just make our lights a bit dearer. However, the LED mfr's issue datasheets from which it is possible to interpolate lumen output for a given current. Optics mfr's issue information on trasmission rates. All this could have been used to approximate a more realistic output, but Exposure (and others of course) do not. Feel free to decide for yourselves their motivation for this. So I don't think that comment is unfair.
As you probably know the Exposure folk, being in the trade, you can probably vouch for them building the lights here in the UK and, combined with bike lights being a niche market, their volumes will be much lower, hence higher unit cost. So they have wisely designed a neat light as their built in value to counter this. I have drawn attention to what I perceive as the Joystick's virtues, when compared to other options.
I am suggesting alternatives, in this case, one of comparable output and runtime. If I wanted a new helmet light, I couldn't afford another Joystick again at the moment and I'm guessing there are others like me.
Off topic i know but i used my P7 for a recent camping trip. I took my little girl for a trip to the loos and on the way back we saw two people stood at the side of the road. I said hello and the guy grumpily replied they thought we were a motor car with a headlight out cos the light was so bright. Made me chuckle
Gerroff me leg, you know where, its out on the trail.
So, as an excercise in futility, I gaffer taped my tesco 2C torch (which, incidentally, has a similar Seoul Z-Power LED to the Joystick) to my hat last night and went for a ride. I perceived it as being slightly brighter overall with a more concentrated centre beam and a similar amount of spill. It has a less tidy beam but when riding I didn't notice a substantial difference in trail perception, other than the 'colour' of the light. Mine gives off a bluish white light, not such a nice colour as the Joystick, which has a more trail friendly slightly greenish tint.
Needless to say this torch was much heavier, positioning was trial and error, it felt like it was bouncing around even though it was firmly fixed, ran out long before the Joystick and looks like a dogs a**e. I certainly wouldn't advocate using one as a helmet torch unless you could afford nothing else.
As I don't have a camera to produce beam pics, you decide for yourselves as to whether I am being honest in my appraisal. The amount of light it gave off was (a bit) greater, and that's from a £9-12 torch, which is part of my point.
I wish that I could give more feedback on the Fenix and Trustfire torches I have seen. I saw them when I was out riding and bumped into another group, two of whom had these torches. When I looked them up, I was genuinely surprised how much less they cost for the amount of useful light they were giving.
so you are after a small light as an emergency off road light? or a get me home on roads light?
If you want an emergency off road light, go to tescos, buy there 1 watt led tourch for about 10 quid, and a lock block and throw them in your ruck sack, if you need it it will last about 1.5 hours on and will get you home.
