Well one persons post on here leaves me gobbsmacked. Hasnt even bothered to read what happened and all the witness statements. Mind he has little respect for other cyclists.
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 I've done enough hitch hiking to know that truck drivers are isolated from a lot of what is going on around them hence my own reluctance to get near them. Hobo is entitled to approach it from a point of view he knows won't please most of us. The evidence in this case is very much that the driver clearly wasn't paying much attention and lied through his teeth about the aftermath (and really shouldn't be allowed back on the road) but even truck drivers that are paying attention could mow you down if you are less than wary. I wince when I see cyclists deliberately going down the inside of trucks and buses and got a flaming on RCUK when I suggested it might be best not to even in situations where it's legal.
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| Edited: 03/11/09 20:49 |
 About 9 years ago I was, unfortunately, involved in the investigation of a dual fatality involving a 32 ton Foden tipper & a father & his daughter on a bike. They had crept up the inside of the HGV which, whilst not indicating, was actually turning left. Yes there was an element of contributory negligence on the part of the cyclist and, yes, there were big blind spots from the cab but the driver knew he'd run over something more than just a kerb and stopped. This was despite being in an older, noisy & fully laden truck. The company concerned now has extended mirrors with 'fisheye' ends to cover the blind spots & their newer vehicles have cameras down both sides & at the rear linked to a screen in the cab to help their drivers. If someone can run over a person, drag a bike up the road, have folk shouting at them & cars flashing & hooting without noticing a thing then they should not be allowed behind the wheel. Simlplez. Again, my genuine sympathies to the Spinks family.
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 So what is the driver being castigated for, running over a cyclist who arguably put himself in unnecessary danger or driving away from the accident?
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A remorseful mr Stubbs
and words from the judge.
Judge Penelope Belcher said his behaviour after the accident had been "callous" and he had shown total disregard for Mr Spink and his family. "You sought to prevent any proper investigation into the circumstances of Mr Spink's death," she said. "You pulled the bike out from under the lorry. It was plainly damaged. "You must have realised you had collided with a pedal cyclist and that the cyclist must have suffered serious injury, and given the circumstances of the bike being lodged under the lorry, you must have realised that the cyclist might have been killed. "You plainly knew, or ought to have known, he was there. "The exact circumstances are a matter of some dispute...(but] Mr Spink and his bike ended up beneath your lorry." She said Stubbs' attempts to "undermine the proper investigation" of the case had added to Mr Spink's family's pain and the two years since the event in July 2007 had been "worse and more distressing than the actual funeral" for them. "All involved in this case have conducted themselves with dignity," she told Stubbs. "Instead you continue, despite the weight of the evidence against you, (to claim] no knowledge of how the bike came to be in the undergrowth. "You have shown no remorse at all. "In the witness box not once did you express any concern for the deceased and his family. "Your attitude was 'it was all the cyclist's fault'. "You showed callous indifference to Mr Spink's death and that was reflected in how you disposed of the bike and other items in the layby. "It was plain you put concern for yourself above any concern for the cyclist."
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| Edited: 03/11/09 21:34 |
 Running over an experienced cyclist who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time the same LGV driver,who failed to stop after the accident and failed to report it, the same driver who lied repeatedly,and failed to understand he had killed somebody the same driver who failed to offer any sympathy,condolance or even a basic sorry to the family.
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We can all read XCman.  Apart from Mike Spence who seems not to have noticed that the driver was also castigated for careless driving. From the witness statements it's clear the driver was paying so little attention his driving was dangerous so I'm a little disappointed they only found him guilty of the lower charge. Fairly common in road traffic collisions though. The message is you can kill with impunity unless you are as arrogant and uncaring as Stubbs in which case you get done for your lack of humanity (which is what I think you are cynically getting at Mike S) A speeding police driver on a non-urgent mission in his patrol car killed a boy on a pedestrian crossing in Marseille last year and walked free from court recently. What kind of message does that send out?
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 So what is the driver being castigated for, running over a cyclist who arguably put himself in unnecessary danger or driving away from the accident? In my eyes the CPS should have relentlessly pursued the case for perverting the course of justice, which from my understanding can carry a sentence of up to life. Trying to get rid of evidence in such a fashion clearly shows a degree of premeditation to hide a crime he knew he had commited...that alone should carry more than 2 years
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| Edited: 03/11/09 21:48 |
The premeditation one is interesting Billy. For example, if Clarkson ever runs a cyclist off the road and kils them his own public declarations would be proof enough of premeditation and therefore justify a charge of murder with a motor vehicle. Not so obvious that Stubbs intended to run over the cyclist, though it is a possibility from the witness reports.
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 All i was doing was playing devils advocate to the black & white opinions on here. I will reitterate that regardless of what you deem the noise of a small car would be, i was in a brand new Mercedes truck the other week and it was blooming noisy. Tie that in with a stereo booming, a tired driver concentrating on a turn and the fact that they are pulling big loads i will still say there is a 'chance' he didnt realise. My own opinion is that he was sentenced on the callous way he removed the bike and the fact that there is a good chance of careless driving. Regardless, my point was not really to make an issue of this case but to highlight the fact that both motorists AND CYCLISTS need to take ownership of the risks. The passenger side of HGV's should be deemed suicide alley for cyclists IMO. Mind he has little respect for other cyclists. Eh???
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Knowing Wakefield well and knowing the junction well I can make an educated guess as to what went on. I worked on Charlesworth Way for 6 years. Its not a sharp left its a long curving left, I'd love to know what he was using to navigate as he had just gone completly the wrong way from Homebase how, coming from Oxford, would he have known to turn left where he did. I suspect the cyclist was going straight on, only a suspicion, and he got in the way of the nice man below.
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| Edited: 03/11/09 22:01 |
My point really John, is that if this chap had stopped at the scene then we wouldn't be discussing it now. It's the drivers actions after the accident that caused the huge outcry.
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Suppose it is hard to spot or hear someone banging on your truck shouting "Whoa Whoa" and then clinking to the windscreen wipers to try and prevent themselves going under your truck.
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Put it another way XCman. If it really did happen that way, and yes i agree someone hanging from the wipers (What model truck was it btw) and banging on the truck, along with people shouting and beeping horns, who in their right mind would try to make a run for it in a bloody truck? I ask what model truck it is because i reckon anything above 7.5t i would struggle to even reach them from a bicycle. Also how did he grab the wipers? Was he infront of the truck or beside it? If he was in front, there is a new mirror fitted to trucks (By law) which covers this area now
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So I had understood you Mike. Does make you wonder how the cyclist got anywhere near the windsceen wipers without being seen doesn't it XCman.
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I see we are struggling on the same point Hobo.
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On the one hand i can see the point regarding little chance of not knowing, thats not a very big lorry. But then how did he grab the wipers now??
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Mrs Spinks responce on Singletrack JLS - Member I am compelled to write to all of you, who have commented on this incident. I am the sister of the victim Tony Spink. The truth is that this man should be serving a life sentence for the manslaughter of my brother. He has got away with this dispicable crime. My brother was horrifically killed by a man, who used his lorry to kill him. My brother was heard by witnesses shouting "whow, whow whow" while desperately banging of the front of this cold blooded killers lorry for him to stop..he then made a last ditch attempt to fight for his life and tried to grab the windscreen wipers, before he was dragged underneath his lorry....witnesses where frantically beeping there horns for this man to stop and he simply drove on...ignored a poor, poor womans screams as she saw my brother being dragged under the lorry....
When he gave his own evidence, he simply said with so much anger inside him, he saw nothing and heard nothing...there was no remorse and is contempt for our Tony's life and the courts itself, beggered belief.
His Barraster even asked if it was Ok if Mr Stubbs didn't attend or turn up late to the judges summing up, because he had his son to take back to his X wifes. He acted as if he didn't know what all the fuss was about! It was a though he had killed a hedgehog and nothing more!...His family also did everything they could to make out as though it was my brothers fault!.
So as for the comments "10 years or 2 years" man!!.Would you be so lenient if it had been someone so precious to you?.Prison is a punsihment,killers have to be punished, otherwise,why have laws! This mans actions have devestated our family and also devestated the lives of his friends. This killer thought he could get away with killing a cyclist and ironically, he has got away with it.
This man also continued to drive his big lorry for over two years after my brother was killed,the same agency who employed him on that fateful day, continued to employ him, until he had is liscence taken off him.They also said [quote]"depending on the outcome of this trial, we will continue to employ him".I can only hope that the laws in this country will change and protect cyclists against these killers!
May I take this opportunity to thank you all for your comments..It is nice to know, that others are also appalled by this mans actions!!
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The premeditation one is interesting Billy. I suppose premeditation is the wrong word, Not so much that he intended to run somebody over that day.But the fact he went out of his way, to dispose of evidence clearly points to something, some knowledge he'd done something incredibly wrong...kind of like...oh fuck I've (more than likely) killed somebody I'd better dispose of this evidence.So not so much premeditation but most certainley some form of intention to prevent the proper execution of the legal system.
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I don't know if that's the truck Hobo I just looked through Google images till I found a typical truck of the size that delivers to our local Kingfisher stores. Whilst I agree with much of what the family say I find they lose their objectivity in the sentence they demand. A sentence has two roles: protection of the public from dangerous people and disuassive role, both for the culprit and others. Two years fulfils the second part adequately IMO, and to fulfil the first part a lifetime driving ban with an electronic bracelet to enforce it better than prison. I really don't want to have to pay to keep Stubbs in jail for life and don't think it would help him or society. Spite and revenge are not qualities.
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