Nope! I get what you are saying Dan, but the subtleties and design of different suspension arrangements have different behaviour. You ride the enduro with the fox and then the Dt and you will find that although the dt moves about more, the fox usues more energy and has less traction.

It is a known thing that fsr's don't really benefit much from platform damping, not just by the public but in 'the industry' also. yes, power transfer is a little more direct with a really solid rear end, so great for xc sprinting and suchlike, but for most things bumpy it inhibits traction, which is why i struggle a bit more on the inbred on the rockier peaks climbs than the enduro, as the rocks are too big for the rear end to track negating the benefit of the extra power transfer.

For example, Vpp's are meant to sit up under power a bit to 'tighten' the rear end (which is why they traditionally suffer from feedback, as it is part of the design), these benefit from platforms as it helps keep the back end up and steady, whereas fsr's (four bar) are meant to pedal efficiently foremost whilst remaining fully active to aid traction, which is why platforms aren't much use as it reduces the activity of the rear end.

re suspension designs; indeed. I did a huge amount of nerdy research before buying the Reign and looked at the various characteristics of FSR, VPP, Maestro etc....some of it was quite interesting really..

And yes I can see the benefits of an active shock with regard to traction etc.

However, there's no way you're ever going to convince me that bobbing up and down whilst pedalling a suspension bike is a Good Thing™ !

;-)

and re FSR and platform shock -  I kind of assumed that people would only ever use it for climbs, sprints etc and not constantly.

 It seems fairly obvious that it would inhibit the full action of the shock on downhills etc

No, on downhills it should be off, I was referring to uphill traction.

There are two types of bob, one where the chain tension compresses or extends the suspension, which indeed does waste power as lets say, for example, 20% of the pedal stroke is lost in moving the suspension and not the wheel, therefore only 80% results in forward motion.

The other type (ala fsr) is where the chain tension has no real influence upon the suspension, with (for example) 95% of the pedal stroke being transferred into forward motion. The bob in this case comes from the main frame unit moving downwards with the push on the pedal, but the pedal itself does not rotate, losing no power. It is the inertia of the riders thrusts that sets the suspension moving, not the chain tension.

That is why you don't get 'chain growth' and 'feedback' with fsr and other well executed four bar rear ends (and why spesh are very possesive about the license of the horst link system) but you do with vpp and suchlike as the chain tension is used to influence the suspension. Vpp is an excellent system btw when well executed and can be very efficient and bob free, it's just the best example of pedal induced suspension movement.

I used to hate FS, I had the old saracen with a unified triangle rear end that, if run too soft, would use about 40% of the pedal stroke squatting the rear end, meaning if you tried to sprint, the harder you pedalled the less you accelerated leaving you boinging up and down in the middle of the road not gettig anywhere looking a right royal plonker! It did used to fly though once up to speed, the hard pedalling keeping the rear end active making it's 2.5/3" or whatever travel it had feel more like 4.5".

The only problem bob presents for me on the enduro is pedal strikes when climbing, that is the downside. there is a negligible difference between enduro and inbred, even out of the saddle sprints. I can assure you after riding the enduro for 2.5 years that the bob has no power sapping influence, nada, zilch, f*£k all! (ok, maybe 5% TOPS in comparison to a HT, but certainly nothing you can notice) It pedals more efficiently now that it bobs more, nothing to do with the bob, the bob is becasue the rear is softer, the efficiency increase is because the bike sits still now when climbing as it used to bounce about with the old float rl which it still will if I apply pro pedal, which brings us back to the start...

Sorry for the thread hi-jacking btw, me and Dan often get into techy discussions!