Hi all,

After having her bike nicked over the Xmas break, my girl-friend is now after a new one.

She has tried a couple and is very taken with the Spesh FSR XC womens bike.
Having taken a look around, all the shops are stating £799
The best deal I have found is 10% of the value, in free goods.

Is this a case of price fixing or purely the fact that its a new model at the start of the year??

Also the same bike in USA is $1099 (£477), any differences in the bike to be aware of?
Apart from the customs aspect.

Ta muchly.....

Sandy.

Best place to ask this would be an MBR letters page :-)

but just a memory from the past:

I believe a certain distributor a few years back got their kncuckles rapped for enforcing price fixing on it's suspension forks sales amongst it's dealers. It might be worth asking the Office of Fair trading if this practice is illegal or not.


the 10 % of free goods, but no one offering a discount on the bike is a interesting point to tell the OFT

It's been going on for years. When I got my first bike in '94 Kona were allegedly operating a strict no discounting policy in the UK. Everyone I phoned was offering me the same price but offering different amounts of free kit. More than one dealer told me that if they started discounting they'd more than likely experience 'supply problems'. Kona seem to have moved on - I definitely see them discounted these days but I guess others are still at it.

For me it wasn't an issue. As my first bike I was quite happy to take the discount as a helmet, gloves (which I still wear), lock (lost key years ago, still got lock in case key ever turns up!) bottle and cages etc.

Now though I'd just want the bike. I've got all the stuff and I've got spares of most of the stuff. S'pose you could go for upgrade mechs, spare wheels etc?

Bike shops operate on such small profit margins that I think it's a tad cheeky to ask for a discount on a new model of a bike; fair enough if it was last year's model, but this is a new bike.

Of course it's price fixing, they just don't call it that. It doesn't matter what the OFT do, the legal guys at Spesh, Marin, Cannondale etc will always come up with a legal way to 'persuade' the dealer to sell the bikes at the 'right' price.

If you want to get a discount offer to pay with a 'debit' rather than 'credit' card and get to know the guys in your LBS. If you get a discount don't go shouting about it on the forums.

Explain this. Why should any shop offer a discount? After all it's january, you're talking about an '05 bike, and somehow the shops have to make enough money to a) buy new stuff to sell and b) pay their staff. Ever thought of it that way? That when you ask for a discount you are in effect asking the salesman to give you some of his wages?

As a salesman what would you rather. Have 10% commission of a £799 bike that you sold for £750 or 0% because the buyer went down the road?

The lineup looks like a mother and father complete with a dysfunctional (sp) family.

The Unusual Suspects

Oops put that in the wrong place :-0

10% in commission I wish!? Thats most of the margin haha! I dont see why it's an issue.

Doesn't stop about 90% of people trying to get a deal out of you, but as no one discounts the bikes, there's no obligation to do so, as soon as someone starts doing it, everyone has to.

"As a salesman what would you rather. Have 10% commission of a £799 bike that you sold for £750 or 0% because the buyer went down the road?"

This isn't the motor trade. Most bike shop staff aren't on commission, they're just paid a wage. And often a fairly paltry one at that. As has been commented, the margins on bikes are pretty low and the actual profit even lower. For many shops, it would actually be better to not sell a bike than sell it with 10% off.

It is an odd one. On the one hand I can see where people are coming from with the discount thing, but on the other hand I don't see many people haggling over laptops in PC World or groceries in Tesco.

Margin on bikes is more than 10% and you know it Nick, I'm not going to put the trade price of a well know bike on here but I know full well that shops can afford to give 10% off bikes. I've never said they 'should', but why not ask?

Okay so you know the trade price of a bike compared with the retail. Does that trade price include the VAT? Hmm, that brings the profit nargin down a bit. Now out of that profit margin the shop owner has to pay, rent/mortgage, business rates, utility bills, staff wages and that's jsut the minimum outgoings. Suddenly that shop isn't making so much of a profit is it.

Always ask for discount on high value goods, if you get it great and if you don't well never mind. If you don't ask you don't get!

According to published statistics on Bikebiz.com (trade site)the average retail margin on bikes is 34%, clothing 43% and parts & accessories 48%.

These will be gross margins out of which overheads such as salaries, rents etc have to be paid.

But this amounts to manufacturers/distributors being allowed to compete on price (e.g. Giant pricing below equivalent spesh) but not the retailers.

I don't how exclusive territories work in LBS -land, but for most brands you will have a couple of local shops to choose from. It doesn't seem fair to NOT allow price as one of the criteria for choice.

american bikes will have the brakes the wrong way around!

Check carefully, the Rockhoppers are quite differently specced, most have cable disc brakes, the pro has a really beefy more, more aimed at the jumpy market than the XC market, watch out if buying from the US.

'For many shops, it would actually be better to not sell a bike than sell it with 10% off.'
That's really what it boils down to Mike, good to see someone gets it!

Good call on the haggling on PC's and groceries too. Do you ask for a discount in HMV on CD's? My girlfriend works in a certain homeware/furniture store where the average mark up is 400% and she has never been asked for a discount, even on sofa's etc into the £1000's. Why do people feel compelled to ask for money off bikes where the margin is absolutely shocking in comparison? Maybe we should have similar margins. XTR Chainset, that'll be £700 please, then you can have 10% off!

"For many shops, it would actually be better to not sell a bike than sell it with 10% off." Early in the year, maybe. Later in the year when new stock is about to be released then you'll see them discounted. They're not being sold at a loss, just less of a profit.

As for not haggling on PC's etc, that's not completely true. It depends where you buy it from, if you buy it from an independant shop where you're dealing with the guy who owns the place, you can haggle. It's his choice whether he gives you a discount or tells you to bugger off. The same is true in most retail outlets. Would you buy a car without beating the salesman down on the price? No, of course you wouldn't. So why is a bike any different?

We all have a choice about where to buy, but the shops have to put up with whoever comes through the door. If they don't discount fine, the customer can always go elsewhere. The best bet though is to strike up a good relationship with your LBS and you'll find that in most cases the discount will be there without being asked for.

I haggled for the sofa I'm sat on, the PC I'm posting from, the car that I'll carry my bike on tomorrow and the bike itself. For each I achieved what I consider a fair price i.e. one that I was prepared to pay and 'the man' was prepared to sell for.

Don't ask, don't get - it's that simple.

I'd like to point out that I don't always *expect* a discount but if I'm spending a sizeable sum, I'll always ask.