Gear News
You are looking at: Home : Gear News

Are quick releases safe?

Disc brake worries


Posted: 30 May 2003
by Mike Davis

If you're the kind of person who frequents internet bike forums (and if you're reading this we guess that you probably are) you may be aware of something of a kerfuffle surrounding front wheel quick releases and disc brakes.

Here's the story so far. James Annan is a keen tandem rider. He got himself a custom fork built for a road tandem equipped with disc brakes. And first time out he and his stoker found themselves lying on the ground with the fork ends crunched against the Tarmac and the front wheel lying some distance away.

Looking into the causes of the incident, he concluded that braking forces had pulled the front wheel out of the dropouts. Sounds unlikely? That's pretty much what a lot of people thought when Annan described his experiences and hypothesis on Usenet. Lots of people said it couldn't possibly happen, not with a properly-fastened quick release. And lots of people looked at the pictures of his tandem fork and wondered what on earth such a spindly thing was doing with a disc brake on it in the first place.

Conventional wisdom says that a quick release skewer doesn't have to work all that hard on a bicycle. The weight of the frame and rider sits on the axles, so all the QR has to do is to support the weight of any wheels that may find themselves off the ground. But, says Annan, conventional wisdom doesn't know about disc brakes...

When a bike brake locks, it becomes effectively fixed at the brake pads. There's a reaction force at the contact patch of the front tyre equal to the force produced by the weight of the bike and rider. That force attempts to pull the bottom of the front wheel backwards, pivoting it around the brake pads. Even if the brake isn't locked, the force exists, just less of it. But of course the front wheel is also held at the axle. With a rim brake up near the top of the fork, the force on the axle is pretty much horizontal and not all that large as the brake's a long way from the axle.

But a disc brake calliper is low down, near to the axle and often level with it. Which results in an approximately downwards force acting at ninety degrees to a line running between the hub axle and the centre of the brake pads, a force that is very close indeed in direction to the open end of the fork dropouts...

But it'd have to be a pretty big force to pop the front wheel out, right? For that to happen it'd have to be a force big enough to not only exceed the retention ability of the front quick release skewer but also big enough to lift the whole weight of the bike and rider upwards and off the front wheel. James Annan did some sums. And guess what? It can be that big.

Worst-case scenario

In many ways, his tandem was a worst-case scenario. For a start, the fork dropouts were at the worst possible angle, and had no retention lips on the. And the four-pot brake caliper he was using was sat low down, about level with and behind the axle. His front skewer had a smooth face under the lever end, rather than serrations. He was riding on the road with good grip so the front wheel would lock rather than slide. And he was on a tandem, a big, heavy bike with two people on it. Tandems are also long with a low centre of gravity, allowing you to decelerate a lot faster than a solo bike without the back end lifting. More weight means a greater reaction force, which means a bigger force on the front axle, in this case big enough to pop the whole shooting match off the top of the wheel.

At this point Usenet turned its attention to the fork itself, and concluded that it was badly designed. It had thin, flexy legs, vertical dropouts, no retention lips... So Annan looked at regular suspension forks on solo bikes like the ones most of us use, with a slightly forward-angled dropout. And did the sums again. He showed that a fairly normal-weight rider braking sufficiently hard could again generate a net downward force at the front axle big enough to comfortably exceed the ISO standard for quick release clamping force.

So why doesn't it happen all the time? Well, for a start most quick releases themselves comfortably exceed the ISO standard. And there needs to be a certain amount of weight being decelerated about as fast as it's possible to decelerate. And most forks have retention tabs on the dropouts to stop an incorrectly-fastened front wheel falling out.

So far, so hypothetical. But reports started to come in (several to us) of front wheel-related incidents, either axles shifting in dropouts, wheels becoming loose or indeed coming off altogether.

Back in the comfy world of conventional wisdom, front wheels can only come out if the front quick release isn't properly secured. It's not an uncommon problem with novice riders. But many of the people reporting certainly weren't novices, having years of riding experience and certainly knowing how to operate a quick release skewer.

Annan carried out some more investigations, and found many instances of front wheels either coming out or becoming very loose but being spotted before they fell out. We asked BM members about it, and there were a fair few with similar experiences. Again, generally these incidents would have been put down to user error, but we're still talking about experienced riders here. Notably, significant numbers of people report having to tighten their QRs to the extent that they can't open them by hand to keep their wheels in place...

But how could wheels fall out past the retention tabs? Up to this point there's really no disputing Annan's calculations. Cleverer people than us have looked at them and raised no objections. You can plug in lower rider weights and larger rotors and get smaller forces coming out, and skewer tests have shown that the potential pull-out force is much higher than the ISO standard, but it's not all that massive an amount in either direction. But the retention tabs ought to stop this happening. With a retention tab in place, it's not enough to exert sufficient force to make a properly-closed quick release slip in the dropouts. It's actually got to come undone.

This is where the second part of Annan's hypothesis comes in. Engineering theory shows that repeated transverse loadings on threaded fasteners - like the nut end of a quick release skewer - can cause them to become loose. Additionally, heating and cooling cycles can have a similar effect due to the threaded parts expanding and contracting. The first part of the hypothesis suggests that sizable transverse loadings exist, and there's certainly a fair bit of heating going on down at the bottom of a disc-equipped fork. Not to mention the twisting that can occur under braking and over bumps.

So, Annan says, what happens is this. Due to the repetitive loads placed on the axle by braking, the QR skewer gradually unwinds itself. Eventually it unwinds sufficiently that the downwards force from heavy braking is sufficient to pop one end over the retention lips - and remember that the brake calliper is only on one leg and thus applies more force to that side of the axle. With one end out, it takes very little for the other end to come adrift too, and down you go. It's a controversial hypothesis, and given the nature of the forums in which it's being discussed opinion is hugely polarised. (Various discussions and feedback are linked from Annan's original page).

Few would argue, though, that threaded fasteners can come undone. And at the end of the day the QR skewer is just another threaded fastener. There's no particular reason why it should be immune, although good skewers have hard, serrated faces to prevent unscrewing.

Risk assessment

Which leaves us with two questions. How much of a problem actually is it, and what can be done about it? Well, we're pretty convinced that an approximately vertical dropout and rear-mounted brake calliper is a poor design which leaves the quick release and retention lips having to do things they were never intended to do. The quick release skewer was invented a long time ago, certainly a long time before discs were invented. The whole dropout/skewer system has gradually evolved, and its presence on modern bikes is really just a convenient hangover from bikes passim. A subtle redesign of the fork would remove the possibility entirely - putting the brake calliper on the front of the fork leg would tend to push the front axle upwards rather than downwards, and indeed early disc brakes from Hope and Sachs had a front mounting. It wasn't until the development of a standard mount that it moved round the back.

These aren't things that we can do ourselves, though. It's something that the manufacturers would need to address. And thus far the manufacturers haven't had much to say on the subject, although it seems implausible that none of them are aware of it - we've asked a fair few ourselves... Trek have said they're investigating, although it's the legal department that's involved. Which is not Trek saying, "Here's a problem that we need to fix" but "Is there a problem here that's likely to lead to legal action?" Pace put out an open letter saying, essentially, "It can't happen". And that's about it. We know that others are looking into it, even if they haven't said so publicly. Several industry bodies, including the CTC and Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, are looking at the issue. Of course, it's all a rather interesting legal paradox. Say that a manufacturer decides that this is a big problem and redesigns something to make the problem go away. The new design is safer, but by redesigning it they're effectively saying that the old design wasn't as safe as it could be and leaving themselves open to legal action. This isn't unique to this one issue - it's a wonder any safety improvements ever get made to anything...

So what should we do? Do we need to do anything?

Let's look for some perspective. There've been a lot of reports of front wheel related incidents since this issue came to light. Whether that means that there are any more incidents than in previous years it's pretty much impossible to say. Just as previously such reports would be dismissed as operator error, so now we get the distinct impression that all QR-loosening incidents are tending to be attributed to disc brakes. We think there's a bit of over-reporting going on - just because something other than operator error could cause skewers to come loose doesn't mean that operator error has gone away. And indeed casual observation of riders on the trail suggests that there's still a healthy number of people not doing the things up properly. But of course it cuts both ways. The existence of operator error doesn't mean that there's no other mechanism by which a wheel could fall out.

It's worth remembering that there are a lot of variables here. Rotor size, rider weight, QR clamping force, available grip... Some investigations of skewer clamping suggest that good skewers are capable of resisting a pull-out force of some 3-4,000N which is well in excess of what most will experience, particularly if you're a light rider on a light bike. But again, there's a lot of variability - some skewers aren't much good at all. Some forks have extremely deep retention lips that require the nut to be undone several full turns to clear easily, which makes it look fairly implausible that they could loosen sufficiently to be forced over the lips before the rider notices. But again, not all.

To be honest, we think the debate over the unscrewing issue is fairly irrelevant. What's pretty clear is that having the open end of the dropouts roughly in line with the forces on the axle under braking isn't terribly clever. If the skewer breaks or comes undone for whatever reason, having things arranged so the axle is driven downwards under braking isn't what we'd call fail-safe.

But still, the fact remains that the vast majority of people have never had a problem of this sort. We're certainly not going to suggest that everyone immediately junks their QR forks for 20mm through-axles, although if you're very heavy and brake very hard you might want to consider it. But you should be aware of the possibility, and we've got a few recommendations to minimise the chances of this happening to you while the boffins look into it.

First, look at your hubs and skewers. The faces of the hub locknuts and of the skewers should be well serrated and preferably steel. Serrations dig in to the dropout surface which helps to prevent unscrewing and also increases the skewer's resistance to slip. There are lots of hubs and skewers out there with completely smooth surfaces - not good.

The skewers themselves need to be capable of exerting the maximum possible clamping force. Avoid titanium skewers - the shafts can stretch considerably more easily than steel, which is clearly not ideal. Skewers with internal cams like Shimano, Campagnolo and Mavic appear to work better than those with external cams, but either way make sure that the cam is well lubricated. The effectiveness of external cams in particular is hugely reduced if they don't run smoothly.

Don't overtighten skewers. If they're shifting it's tempting just to give the nut another turn and stand on the lever, but doing so stresses the skewer and makes it more likely to break. In most cases, you need to have the lever open at ninety degrees, then tighten the nut until there's a little resistance. At this point you should be able to push the lever fully home. If it closes very easily, you can tighten the nut a little further. If it doesn't close easily (hurting your bare hand is a bad sign) then loosen the nut a little.

Check your skewers often. Generally we stop pretty often out on rides, for gates and snacks and map reading and regrouping. Use the opportunity to quickly check that all is snug.

Having the caliper further from the axle is good from the point of view of axle loading, which implies that bigger discs are better. Unfortunately bigger discs put bigger loads on the bottom of the fork leg so you may be trading one problem for another.

Where from here?

If any engineer sat down with a clean sheet of paper, they wouldn't come up with a design like the one we have for holding wheels into disc-equipped bikes. The forces of tradition and the demands of backwards compatibility are strong. But generally, it works as long as the various components are satisfactory. There's really no rational objection to coming up with something failsafe, though, and we wouldn't be at all surprised to see some fiddling with dropout angles and calliper position in the near future. Clamp-up through-axles obviously make the whole thing a non-issue, but they're currently aimed at the DH market and are fairly beefy as a result. Perhaps someone'll come up with a lighter, smaller, XC/enduro version?

For now, check those skewers (like you should check all the other fasteners on your bike)...


Previous article Previous article:
See you at Fort Bill...
Next article:Next article
VT hits UK

Discuss this story

Makes me glad I havn't got disks...
Posted: 30/05/2003 10:22

I'm sure that we could provide a good chunk of evidence by soliciting the views of the bikemagicers. A simple survey asking who has suffered this type of failure or QR loosening and if they have disks or rim brakes would do it. Considering BM has over 60,000 members even if we only get a response from a small number (1%) it should be possible to show if there is a statistically significant increase in risk of failure with disk brakes over rim brakes. (The statistical analysis is an easy job) Is it possible to set-up this type of survey on the front page of BM? Craig. PS. I want to know as I was just about to switch to disk brakes! :-)
Posted: 30/05/2003 11:00

The simple fact that front wheels can fall out AT ALL, is quite simply disgraceful - even if it is due to rider ignorance. A basic threaded fastener with no fail-safe anything, that isn't actually safe unless the rider knows what s/he's doing. The fact that its made worse by the location of the caliper relative to the dropouts is appalling. Simple solution: Put the IS disc tabs on the front of the right leg, so the caliper can be positioned above and slightly in front of the axle. This alleviates the risk of disc brakes making a poor but workable system any worse.
Posted: 30/05/2003 11:19

Oh, and if you want to test the theory discussed in Mike's article, then try this: 1. Take your disk equipped bike and put it upside down. 2. Completely remove the skewer from the front wheel. 3. Spin the front wheel. 4. Apply the front brake, and watch as the axle gently pops out of the dropout. This demostrates that disk brakes rely solely upon your QR skewer to keep your wheel in place. Not what I'd call ideal...
Posted: 30/05/2003 11:23

"no fail-safe anything" Errm actually there is a fail safe - at least there is on Bombers. The drop outs have got a small flange on the outside. This means that the skewer has to become extremely loose before the wheel can fall out, by which time the rider could not have failed to notice the disconcerting wobbling coming from their front wheel. "This demostrates that disk brakes rely solely upon your QR skewer to keep your wheel in place. Not what I'd call ideal..." Why not? So long as the skewer is done up nice and tight it will stay put. I fully understand and half agree with the theory here, BUT in reality I don't see it as a major problem. Disk brakes have been used on MTBs for several years now without, so far as I know, a large number of front wheels falling out. The stats would seem to suggest that QR skewers ARE safe. Just make sure that it's tight before you start the ride and you won't have a problem.
Posted: 30/05/2003 11:58

Glad you don't have disk brakes? Ha, glad I've got a bolt through front axle...
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:02

Oh, and your test doesn't demonstrate that it relys solely on the QR being there it demonstrates that a wheel can fall out if there is nothing holding it in, like a riders weight for example. As a riders weight is almost completely transferred downwards on to the front wheel during braking then there is an extremely large amount of force required to lift yours and your bikes weight. As opposed to your experiment where it is just lifting the wheels weight. You may be able to tell but I have had discs fo ryears and never had any sort of problem like this.
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:09

Ah, but what happens in the spinning wheel expt. if you spin the wheel the other way? "Put the IS disc tabs on the front of the right leg, so the caliper can be positioned above and slightly in front of the axle. This alleviates the risk of disc brakes making a poor but workable system any worse." This is the sensible solution. With slightly forward facing dropouts the wheel would actually be pulled into the dropout, rather than pushed out of it. Sorted.
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:13

Chris Wright, did you actually read Mike's article? If you did, then you must have noticed the in-depth explanation of the amount of force necessary to overcome the weight of the rider pressing down on the bars. My little test demonstrates that the force is there, and that the wheel can come out. It also demonstrates that the current design of dropouts and caliper position is less than ideal. Yes, most people know how to operate a QR lever. No, it doesn't happen all the time - but once is once too often. All I'd like to see are products that are designed properly, that don't have a question mark hanging over their suitability for purpose.
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:27

what about 2 sets of pads on opposite sides of the disk, then the force would be cancelled out?
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:33

what about 2 sets of pads on opposite sides of the disk, then the force would be cancelled out? Cos then the axel wouldn't have to cope with you weight AND the braking force. (Sorry double post - forgot to add 2nd bit!)
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:35

Oh, and Chris, you'll also notice in Mike's article that he refers to the momentum of the rider adding to the resultant downwards force acting on the axle. So in effect, the heavier the rider, the more likely the wheel is to come out. So you've been using disk brakes for years without any problems. So we don't need to make any improvements then. We'll just bury our heads in the sand and argue that there's no point in trying to make things better.
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:38

Congrtulations to Mike Davis for a well-balanced view of the problem. Some of the Internet stuff is very polemic and difficult to interpret. Just one wee point: "Even if the brake isn't locked, the force exists, just less of it." Isn't it the other way round? When the brake is locked the forces are less - a skidding wheel gives less braking force than a rolling wheel, with the maximum braking force at the point just before the wheel locks. When the brake is locked, the pads are holding the wheel, so it ain't going nowhere??!! This won't stop me investing in disc brakes, and Mike's article is excellent for stating the risk well, and providing possible countermeasures - thanks.
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:51

Hey, i've never known any problems of this sort but i was ver interested in the idea of a lighter bolt through drop out. I think any weight that may be added would be written off the advantages of the axle. stiffer fronts ends can only be good. does anyone know of any companies playing around with that idea. Also how does the QR20 design affect the problem?
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:53

Yeah nice objective reporting, well worth waiting to get it right. I've had a little think about this and I'm not sure it is hard braking that will cause this particular mode of failure, the harder you brake the more force put through the forks from your centre of gravity rotating about the rear wheel, this is easily seen on suspension forks in that they dive. Due to the acceleration this force can be quite high. Also if you follow gary's diy experiment, first feathering the lever and then grabbing a mighty handful, you can see how the friction at the disc contact point makes it more difficult for the axle to pivot about the disc, sure the wheel can pop out in both situaions but looking at it intuitively I would say it's more likely to occur under lighter braking. Imagine riding down a straight rocky/rooty trail about 20-25mph with a fair gradient so you don't have to pedal and you're dragging you brakes a little to keep your speed in check so you can pick you lines quick enough. Your weight is likely to be fairly well back as your travelling pretty quick and want to keep the front wheel light so it can bounce over all those rocks and that - there are plenty of descents like this in the Peaks. Now if your qr is loose the light braking force will allow the wheel to spin out of the drop out easily and there won't be as much weight over it as hard progressive braking. All you need now is a disturbance to cause the brake to bite and kick the front of the bike up, a rock or root will do nicely. Of course the whole problem is that the fail-safe mechanism of regular qr systems is not appropriate and out of date. I'm not convinced that disc brakes will significantly increase the 'failure' or you'd see a lot more of this but given a loose qr I don't think the tabs are sufficient anymore.
Posted: 30/05/2003 12:54

If you're not sure about the risks have a look at this site www.russ-appeal.org.uk It exists as a reaction to an accident a couple of months ago. There is no proof about the exact cause but everybody involved believes that it was the disc/drop-out problem. It matters. Airy-fairy "I don't think..." won't do it any more. There's enough informed opinion to put doubt in the mind of any reasonable person. Mike Davis has done a superb job of stating the case clearly and objectively. So let's get it checked and sorted. The consequences of the accident that follows a skewer failure are inevitable and devastating but appear avoidable. How many times? How many people? If it isn't necessary let's not have them.
Posted: 30/05/2003 13:19

Looking at the maths the maximum force on the QR for any system occurs at the point of maximum decelaration. Yes the current speed, inclination, type of surface, tyres, etc etc on the ride in question will effect the maxium deceleration that can be achieved. But in general the quicker you're slowing down and the greater the riders weight the greater the force on the QR. I like the idea of moving the cailper to the front of the fork, problem solved!
Posted: 30/05/2003 13:21

I run Shermans and the slightly front-loading dropouts (probably about 45 degree) and hefty tabs would appear to offer a decent safeguard for q/r users. Dunno if the new Minutes are the same or not it would appear that Manitou have realised this is a potential problem area and already done something about it. But just to highlight the user error thing I put the wheels on somebody else's bike the other day - having just had a conversation about this - and it when they checked minutes later it was loose. My fault? I find it hard to believe in the circumstances and horrifically embarrassing but it's the only logical conclusion. Gulp. Top article though Mike, nice work. Good to let the dust settle and take a measured view rather than get hysterical about it. Don't understand the maths though! Gary - didn't this happen to you on Cavedale recently?
Posted: 30/05/2003 13:52

peronally after reading the article Im wishing I'd bought the Marz. RAC's instead of the marathons (oh and not having a Ti fron QR !) bravo Mike for an excellent article :-)
Posted: 30/05/2003 13:54

The maths looks OK to me: even with very simplistic reasoning you see that, upon braking, the wheel tries to pivot about the point where the discs meet the pads, tending to rotate the wheel out of the dropouts, especially if the angles are conducive to this... = BAD Note that the rider's weight is not a contributing factor to the *maximum* force which can be exerted upon the QR. This is fixed by the max braking force of the brakes. The rider's mass then determines how quickly he/she can slow down. For a *fixed decelleration*, however, the rider's mass will determine the force on the QR. Anyway, regardless of what the maths says, the way forward must be reproducible experimental testing (without a rider, obviously). The model, regardless of whether it is 100% correct or not, suggests there may be a problem, and the only way to ascertain if this *is* the case is controlled tests. Surely this must be possible..? Moving the caliper does appear to alleviate the problem, but we need to know to what extent this is aproblem with the current set-up, as we are not all going to run out and buy new discs/forks....
Posted: 30/05/2003 13:57

Yup, and I've still got the scar on my nose! My accident wasn't due to the disk-brake problem. This was solely due to QRs not being failsafe. It had simply worked itself loose, and my front wheel dropped out when I lifted the front wheel over a step. The QR could have been loosened in the crash I had 1/2 mile back up the trail, but I just picked up my bike, dusted myself off, and continued on my way - fortunately not as quickly as before. The fact that something as critical as a QR lever can just come undone 'by accident' causes me a bit of concern, and that something so basic can be a problem on a bike that cost over £2k is just downright stupid.
Posted: 30/05/2003 14:28

Having muddled my non- engineer head through the early stuff, I'm glad Mike has written this report - top stuff! I'm also glad I've used mostly 20mm through axle suspension forks with disks. A few years ago, I did ride a disk equipped bike with a quick release front end on pretty much the same trail as Russell did, which sent a shiver up my spine when I read about his accident. Enough blather. Gary's post above reminded me of a crash at the Metabief round of the Dragons a few years back. The rider broke her wrist very badly after the rear wheel popped out of her bike on the long, high speed chute after the quarry on the Metabief course. It later turned out that she had crashed in the woods. There were three theories at the time; the QR had come undone of its own accord, other riders of the same frame had experienced the same problems, or the QR had been loosened or flipped off by the crash. Incidentally, the lass in question made a full recovery, although I seem to remember that's she's fairly expert when it comes to breaking bones. ;) I suppose there is a lesson in this, and that is that we should double check QRs and stuff like that after a crash. I know I've picked up my bike and jumped on straight away too many times. I run Psylos with a Tulio 20mm QR on the front, but you can still lose your rear QR with some pretty horrifying results. The fastest rider down the chute at the event hit 53 mph. Even freewheeling, it was possible to get up to a scary large speed.
Posted: 30/05/2003 15:11

Appreciating that for many of us the physics/maths doesn't add up (we are in the main not qualified engineers!) the arguments about rider weight and wieght on the wheel are not the issue. Mike says: "But it'd have to be a pretty big force to pop the front wheel out, right? ..... And guess what? It can be that big." The 'Annan' maths clearly show that the force from the disc brake can exceed the holding force of the skewer AND the weight on the wheel axle. The issue is - does the skewer (or non-QR system) exert enough force to keep the axle in place? The answer for QR skewers is no - probably! Clearly, if the exit path for the wheel is in the same direction as the force trying to push the wheel out, we are in trouble if something goes wrong with the retaining system!! Even if the brake caliper is in front of the fork legs, and the forces push the wheel up into the dropout, that does not mean the wheel cannot come loose! The forces are the same, they just act in a different direction. Unless the axle is a perfect fit in a dropout 'hole', it could move. When it moves up and down, the skewer can unscrew leaving a 'wobbly' wheel just as you negotiate that little rock drop-off - ouch! The first fix must be sufficient retaining force for the wheel to meet the forces involved. The second fix is a 'foolproofed' retaining system we can all operate 'right first time'. The risk management is a fail-safe device if there is a catastrophic failure in the brake or wheel-retaining system that prevents serious injury. Bearing all this in mind, it is a bloody tall order for the designers - including all us amateurs!! No surprise they are not all leaping in with comments and solutions! In the meantime, take great care with your front wheel/disc brake systems!
Posted: 30/05/2003 15:24

presumably a Whyte bike (like mine) with its dropout system shouldnt suffer this problem then? yipee!
Posted: 30/05/2003 16:11

>The issue is - does the skewer (or non-QR system) exert enough force to keep the axle in place? As Mike says - but not many skewers (or dropouts) have been designed with this in mind, most are just designed to not let the wheel fall out if you lift the bike up. I also think moving the disks to the frount provides other problems, as the axle would have to be strengthened due to larger forces upwards.
Posted: 30/05/2003 16:14

Aye, but it's still just a jumped up Marin! ;) - now please stop beating me up. It was a joke, alright?
Posted: 30/05/2003 16:14

i think the wombats right (careful of the evolution there), moving the brake on to the front of the forks would mean that the force is pushing upwards against the spring. esentially, when ur breaking hard - it will take less force for the fork to move over bumps. if your breaking hard and hit a big bump you could run right through your travel and have an accident. to be honest, this option seems considerebly worse than the current problem!! to correct THIS fault all forks would have to be designed like USE Subs. it seems pretty easy for companies to just angle the dropouts fowards. no research and development, just a new dropout casting machine. easy!!sorted!! so why not??
Posted: 30/05/2003 17:27

Um, a mag casting is quite expensive, IIRC. And it would take R&D, if only to prove that it <would> work. The other thing is that the caliper, if it's on the front of the fork, is being pulled away from it rather than puched into it. That's why the vee brakes on Pace forks always seemed to be a bit stronger (Although that might just be my wishful thinking)
Posted: 30/05/2003 17:31

Again, excellent write-up Mike. I've seen lots of bits about this out there but this puts it all together very well. My 2p is - motorbikes have used disc brakes for ages (faster speeds, heavier = even greater forces) and they don't use QR skewers - I wonder why? Maybe another reason for some cross over design. Or would just a bolt on skewer solve the problem?
Posted: 30/05/2003 17:38

Tulio Campagnolo came up with the idea for the quick release system whilst trying to change a tyre in the rain. QRs were developed to allow roadies to change punctured tyres (IIRC, everyone used tubs instead of clinchers back then) quickly. Changing a puncture on a motorcycle was/is more involved, and motorcycles can carry tools anyway, so there was little need to develop a quick release system. Before Campagnolo's idea, most racing bikes wither had wingnuts or a rider lugging a gert big spanner with them. - useless factoid: Tulio loved peanut butter, and Campag sold a Peanut Butter Wrench for a while. One end was a socket for removing old style crank bolts. The handle was shaped in such a way that it was perfect for spreading peanut butter on a slice of bread. You don't get more practical than that.
Posted: 30/05/2003 17:52

Worth pointing out, perhaps, that if you're running 29" wheels the force on the axle is going to be greater (as the reaction force from the ground is at agreater distance from the pivot point, giving a greater torque), and therefore more likely to pop the wheel out. Also, if you have rear facing dropouts on your back wheel, discs (or even V-brakes) will have the same effect as on the front. There, though, the chain helps hold it in place and there is generally less braking force going through the rear wheel. Rear facing dropouts are rare, but I've seen them. Bob.
Posted: 30/05/2003 17:54

Mike, I was simply going to pat your back for an extremely balanced, waffle-free and objective article (as one would expect). However, I see that many other people have made this observation, so from one pedant to another, it only remains for me to note that you have misspelt 'caliper.'
Posted: 30/05/2003 18:01

I'd just like to clear something up from Aarons post a page back - putting the calliper in front of the fork leg will not affect the suspension under braking, the force at the drop out will act locally and be isolated to the lower fork leg due to the fact that both the wheel and the calliper are attached to the lower legs i.e. the wheel may be pushed up into the drop out by the calliper but the caliper will then exert an equal and opposite force downward, thus there will be no resultant from this set of forces to move the suspension. Putting the calliper on the front of the will mean disc mounts will need to be changed however, ISO mounts will not be strong enough if used under tension (I've seen bomber mounts fail by braking while rolling backwards). The Hayes style post mounts will probably be ideal as steel bolt are very strong in tension.
Posted: 30/05/2003 18:25

The problem with Hayes mounts is that whilst steel is good in tension, the magnesium threads probably aren't strong enough to support the longitudinal forces - I've stripped canti bosses out of magnesium forks before. An ISO mount would be better provided it's built for the job - rear mounted ones are obviously only designed to cope with their own circumstances.
Posted: 30/05/2003 18:43

True, you'd probably need steel recievers to, like chain ring bolts but bigger. I don't see everyone going to Hayes style mounts anyway, lightweight hollow through axles would be much better, possibly Ti or even cfrp for the lightweight stuff.
Posted: 30/05/2003 18:48

Mike, Brilliant piece of journalism. I understood it all and am now s#####g myself at the thought of my qr coming lose! Nah, not really, but it does point out, as has been said, that the q/r design needs to be looked at along with the design of ALL drop outs. Fail safe lips, front facing drop outs, etc etc should all be designed asap. Of course, as you say, there is always the legal thing of redesigning due to the problems with the old one. And this is where we stand still. So which Manufacturers got the balls to do it first, cus thats all it takes, just one. Say, Pace ADDED the design of the failsafe lips that Marzocchi's have. Then everyone else copied them to COMPETE with the others. That would get round it. Then who always uses the front facing drop outs....everyone copy them and so on. If consumers are put off enough by knowing that the ones without these features arent as good as the ones with, then the consumer will buy the ones with, wont they. And if I owned a company making forks and realised that I was loosing sales as my forks didnt have the features like the others, then Id want to change mine too. They all got together and designed a standard for the fitting of disk brakes, so why not this. By the way, many motorcycle companies have tried to fit the brake calipers on the front of the forks over the years , even the MotoGP class, as it offers better cooling of the disks, but the pressure on the forks caused too many problems in flex and in weight of the fork. You have to build a much stronger fixing point for front facing. Upside down forks give a much stonger fixing point naturally but flex still appears. Not sure if this would be the same for mountain bikes as I dont know the load differences etc. But I dont think front facing calipers would make as much of an improvement as solving the failsafe designs would.
Posted: 30/05/2003 18:56

Good article. One question for the engineers among you, are forks that flex (lightweight race forks for example) more likely to lead to this sort of problem? I may be wrong, but I would assume there are more torsional forces exerted on the skewer and axle by forks that flex than by those that are stiffer. And one of the problems noted in the article was that the tandems forks were thin and flexy.
Posted: 30/05/2003 20:47

From what i have read, out of all of this i feel that some kind of *fairly* lightweight bolt-thru design seems the best option. It's already avaliable in an albeit heavier form, seems to offer the solution to the current problem and will offer other benefits in terms of stiffness etc.
Posted: 30/05/2003 20:49

Just to clarify, I meant will greater flex increase the liklihood of the skewer unscrewing - "repeated transverse loadings on threaded fasteners - like the nut end of a quick release skewer - can cause them to become loose"
Posted: 30/05/2003 20:50

Gary, did I mention I have A levels in maths and physics, a Cytech NVQ in bicycle/engineering maintenance, 5 years experience as a Bicycle mechanic, 10 years mountain biking experience, and I'm doing a Degree in mechanical engineering? Anyway... There is a chance of this happening. But it is so slight that it borderline insignificant. Has this happened to any World Cup cyclists? No, because they have proper mechanics to build and check their bikes. If all components are installed and operated as stated in their documentation then this problem will never occur. By all means, a re-design may reduce the chances of this happening. Although an easier, cheaper and more effective remedy would be to make sure everyone checks their QR's before each ride, which I imagine all of you do anyway... Just a thought, but is there any chance that the only reason that this is happening is because with discs there are no cantilever brakes there to catch on the tyre as the wheel drops? Like I say, just a theory. With the issue on heavier riders, all of the forces are related to the mass of the rider and so are relative to each other. All I am trying to say is that none of you should be worrying about this too much.
Posted: 30/05/2003 21:03

See more comments...
Talkback: Are quick releases safe?

First Name:
Last Name:
Nickname:
Email:
Security Image:
Enter the code shown:

I agree to the site's Terms and Conditions & Code of Conduct:


Offers, Competitions and Promotions

Win money to spend at Anquet
A £100 of map vouchers up
for grabs