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New XTR for 2003

...more than just a makeover


Posted: 3 May 2002
by Cullen Ward

XTR has remained fundamentally unchanged for years now. And that time has seen loads of new development in lower groups: nine speed throughout, splined bottom bracket axles, introduction of disc brakes, etc. But XTR, formerly the king of the innovation castle, was left on the development shelf. Until now... The new 2003 XTR groupset gets much more than a makeover. There are new: cranks, disc brakes, hubs, mechs and shifters.

Cranks
The big story with the completely new, four arm, fully anodised finish cranks is the bottom bracket and fixing system. Shimano have gone for a massively oversized bottom bracket axle which will be permanantly fitted to the right hand crank. The left arm looses the traditional crank bolts in favour of a pinch bolt over the end of the crank. When you think about it this makes loads of sense. Splined bottom bracket axles don't need much tension to keep them in place. Indeed most problems are caused by over-tightening.

Shifters
Road bikes have long had dual control brake/gear levers for years now but they've never been introduced mtbs. Until, sounds familiar, now... Imagine a road STI lever turned through 90deg, okay? Swap the lever for an mtb one. Braking remains the same. But your shifting is done by moving the lever up or down. Sounds like a neat idea. It'll leave more room on the bar and allow you to shift under heavy braking.

Disc brakes
XTR is your racing groupset so Shimano have gone for a lightweight, fully hydraulic disc system. Fully active two-pot calipers grip onto a super-light, or so we're told, disc. They've got the weight of the disc down by making an aluminium spider (the bit in the middle of the brake disc) with a small steel brake disc. The spider is intergrated with the rotor and mounted onto the hub with a spline fitting - a move away from the current 'standard'.

Mechs
The rear mechs, long and short cage, have been given a makeover, sort of Shimano steroids. The only real technical change is the top jockey wheel has been raised slightly in relation to the pivot point. Shimano claim that this makes shifting a bit tighter. Hopefully we'll see later this year when we get our hands on a groupset to tell you how well it all works.

That just leaves the bad news... It probably won't be available in the shops until the end of 2002.


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Discuss this story

Whats the news on XT? Since XTR will be too expensive, and LX too, well, "gold", we'll all have to buy XT - so what are they doing about this? And why are Chainreaction sold out of ALL shimano MTB rear mechs?
Posted: 03/05/2002 17:57

And how long before the new brake/gear-shifter pods filter down to the lower levels? I really like the look of them as I have never really got on with rapidfire or gripshift.
Posted: 03/05/2002 18:04

But seeing as hydro discs have a firm hold on the market...
Posted: 03/05/2002 18:55

...trust Shitmano to mess up the standards. We've only just got used to six bolt!
Posted: 03/05/2002 18:56

yes It seems to be the way for shimano, I mean I.S. should be the way to go, but the ISIS was a reaction to Shimano patents, just that a IS was sorted before shimano got heavily into discs. just wonder how many MTB headsets they sell these days? wonder how long it will be until they realise they're not the microsoft of the MTB world (roadies have campag) and we really dont have to buy their products and make all stuff compatible.
Posted: 03/05/2002 19:28

yeah they know that now. sram are almost competitive too now!
Posted: 03/05/2002 20:36

Nik, Shimano do actually rule the Road bike world, only a small minority of riders actually use Campag now, due apparently to the fact Campag had a few problems about 5 years ago, what they were I don't know as I only started riding again last year, (Marco may know more), and now most use Shimano, I am a dura ace man myself, and very nice it is to. I have only seen pic's of the new XTR group and I must say in Gold "YUK". I think they must have changed it for people like me who like nice shiney new things, well sorry but I will stick to my old grey XTR thankyou. I didn't even like the polished vesion on the Cannondale Good Boy I saw either, it just does not look right anything other than Grey.
Posted: 03/05/2002 23:01

this was all discussed months ago in the forum...
Posted: 03/05/2002 23:55

Your point being?
Posted: 04/05/2002 09:35

King Edward is still here, under a new guise. Slow Joe, could you please sniff him out? Please?
Posted: 04/05/2002 09:37

Just looking at the design of the brake levers for xtr. Isn't anyone worried about crap accidental shifting like back with the basic gripshifts. By this i mean that most people i know (myself included)ride along with at least one finger resting on the brakes. Come to sum ruff stuff and Ooooops shifted? I guess shimano have done there homework, but i would be dubious of using such a system. I know it works on roadbikes and is good in theory but of course on road bikes levers are not parralel to the ground (almost) like mtb brakes and therefore do not recieve the same sort of forces that would cause accidental shifting. A friend of mine has just done a final year degree project making a hydraulic shifer so no cabel friction. Now that is a good idea!!
Posted: 04/05/2002 11:14

John, you don't get on with Gripshift OR Rapidfire? Have you ever considered a singlespeed?
Posted: 04/05/2002 12:30

If fewer people are running cable V's these days isnt shimano's market going to be slightly limited with the brake gear system?
Posted: 04/05/2002 21:35

Shimano have actually made a pneumatic shifting system, 'Airlines'. www.shimano.com
Posted: 04/05/2002 21:42

Airlines needs to be pumped up after every 500 shifts or so. And it doesn't work with front mechs (for obvious reasons - for a start, there'd be nowhere to put the shifter, Airlines uses two shifter pods for the rear derailleur). If someone made a decent hydro shifting system, I for one would buy one. John (can't be @rsed to do your funny symbols :¬), the XTR disc brakes are hydro (says so in the article, for a start); the cable going to the lever does shifting *only*, there's a separate hydro hose (AFAIK).
Posted: 05/05/2002 00:16

Anthony, my point being I'm not going to repeat all the observations and comments I made in the thread I linked to, and people's comments in that thread might be of interest to people reading this thread. Is that a problem??! =) Note that they have both cable and hydraulic (brake) versions of the levers. The levers would be be for XTR disc brakes only, i would expect. Hydro shifting systems would be great, I've toyed with the idea before, but not put any time into developing the idea. The big plus is that the fluid is virtually incompressible, whereas air is, and cables are fairly elastic. This means you could have extremely precise indexing.
Posted: 05/05/2002 00:58

So if my m8 wanted to sell his hydraulic shifter you lot recon there would be a big market for it? He got a v good reaction on presentation day but i am unsure if he is planning to sell the idea
Posted: 05/05/2002 12:40

yep I think it would be saleable, I for one am fed up of shyte in my cables
Posted: 05/05/2002 12:46

Like I say, I'd certainly buy one - as long as it worked properly with my existing drivetrain (cassette, chainrings, etc). Is he just doing rear derailleurs, or front as well? It must be a pretty hard thing to do, or I'm sure that a company like Shimano or Hope would have brought something out.
Posted: 05/05/2002 13:15

I think hydro shifters would be marketable, especially if you could do the front as well, However the saying it would be a big market could be debatable - I think that would depend on the cost, the weight and the servicability (is that a word?).
Posted: 05/05/2002 20:26

I don't think the front is terribly important, because all the mis-shifts and ghost-shifts are in the rear derailleur system. But yes it would make sense... ...Shitmano would charge, say, £399.98 for the rear mech?
Posted: 05/05/2002 23:00

If hydraulic shifting systems could be made so that they were reliable, it would rule having hydro brakes and shifting, as the bike would be a lot more mud-proof, with only cleaning crud out of the chain cassette and chainrings to worry about.
Posted: 06/05/2002 00:37

It seems very good but don't you think that Shimano/Hope/Sram would have developed it if it was worth developing
Posted: 06/05/2002 06:45

I guess the shifter would have to push the mech, and have a spring assist to return. hmmmm, It's a long shot, but it might just work....
Posted: 06/05/2002 11:22

Same princinple as a Hope C2 brake you mean? A weak spring in the slave cylinder?
Posted: 06/05/2002 12:55

if shimano can do it with air, I'm sure it's possible with hydraulics.
Posted: 06/05/2002 12:56

Tim, why not get your m8 to put an article on Bike Magic?
Posted: 06/05/2002 20:19

It would be very hard to do. For a start you'd have to design a rear mech and shifter that didn't interefere with shimanos patents, or have a frankenstein shifter -cable actuated master cylinder and the slave actuating a cable at the rear mech. It would have to be oppositley(?) sprung to current cable systems, as fluid is only good in compression (like cables are only good in tension) and then theres the major question: is fluid less compressable then cables are strechable???? english? Remember fluid is good for brakes cos the fluid is under a lot of pressure hence why cables are under a lot of tension and hence stretch - fluid doesn't compress (much) giving more accurate feel when a rider squeezes real hard. Gears are a whole different world as not nowhere near as much force is put on a gear cable as a brake cable. A hydraulic system would be extremely difficult to get the same amount of accuracy out of as cables because of the properties of the materials. That I suspect is why no-ones released anything before.
Posted: 06/05/2002 20:36

So fancy hydraulic shifting systems aside... what else should Shimano be working on for the future? What bike will you be riding in 2012?
Posted: 06/05/2002 20:57

Considering the hassle level of changing a gear cable in STI, I don't fancy the idea of bleeding a hydraulic rapid fire unit. I don't fancy the idea of road like STI on a mountain bike either - hope they produce non-STI XTR brake levers, cos those discs look very interesting. What's the betting you can't run the XTR calliper with XT/Hope/Magura levers...
Posted: 06/05/2002 21:13

So you're rattling down hill, and want to feather the brake and shift into an easier gear at the same time - is this going to be as awkward as with the road gruppos?
Posted: 07/05/2002 12:47

? <confused> It's very easy with Shimano road STIs - you pull the brake lever then click left to go to easier gears - never had any problems with that, myself...
Posted: 07/05/2002 13:36

I have road STI (Tiagra) and I do have problems with it - sometimes I pull the brake and it shifts, and sometimes the shifter gets stuck and won't shift - I have not been impressed. I would be highly dubious of using something similar offroad (although given the state of the roads round here, I could argue that I already am - but that's probably another thread!)
Posted: 07/05/2002 13:47

Milo, I guess I'm just waiting for thumbies to make a comeback... Rapidfire: Delicate, fiddly to use with cold fingers, no friction option. Gripshift: Changes gear when I don't want it to. What alternatives do I have at the moment? I would be prepared to try out these combined shifters/brakes but why can't they just knock out a batch of XT thumb-shifters once every couple of years? From looking at other threads here, there would be a market.
Posted: 07/05/2002 15:48

Hi Anthony Lee, sure you just got used to the six-bolt fixing pattern? I can still hear you claiming the same end of the 80th as "Just got used to this 10speed race-bike" and now you ride an MTB. Why claiming before trying? Frank
Posted: 07/05/2002 18:39

What are you on about? And who are you?
Posted: 07/05/2002 19:54

yeah, what are you on about?
Posted: 07/05/2002 20:01

2 or 3 years ago Mavic had an electronic gear changing system in use with one of the Tour de France road bike teams.not good enough? too fiddley? or maybe it did not work reliably, unless you had a mechanic to adjust, change/charge the batteries?
Posted: 07/05/2002 21:41

An electric system would have the additional weight of a battery, although weight would be saved in the shifters, additional weight in the actuator used in the mechs would be considerable (think of the forces). Would be quite flash and highly accurate tho!
Posted: 07/05/2002 22:07

I'm "on about" your comment about the fixation of the disc rotor. OK it's not IS, but does it mean it's bad, why damn it from the beginning. Don't you think it's a good tink people can use the same hub for disc and other brakes easily with having the open 6-bolt pattern and saving lots of weight at the same time? And regarding the Mavic electronics, it's longer ago than 3 years. Their problem was that it wasn't reliable, and especially when wet it created a kind of automatic shifting function because of water in the mech and the switches, that why the pro's coudln't rely on. When Mavic finally improved the system they didn't find any professional rider who was willing to trust in anymore unfortuantely.
Posted: 08/05/2002 07:06

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