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Shimano 2005

GEAR SPECIAL: What the world's biggest component manufacturer has got coming up next year


Posted: 9 March 2004
by Mike Davis

As we've previously mentioned, this is the time of year when bike industry product managers are busily speccing next year's bikes. Which means that they need to know what they've got to choose from. And we get to find out too. Here, then, is some of what Shimano's got cooking for 2005...

Hone

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The big news is the all-new Hone group. It's pitched as an "enduro" group, taking some of the heavy-duty ideas from the Saint freeride/DH components and mixing them with more XCish stuff. If you're into proper big stuff then you're meant to use Saint, if you want light weight then XT should be your choice. Hone is the inbetweeny all-rounder and should therefore be a popular choice - lots of people are inbetweeny all-rounders too... It'll also be cheaper than either Saint or XT, being pitched somewhere vaguely around LX pricing.

Cranks are Hollowtech II, as seen on XTR, XT and Saint - they're not as massive as the Saint ones but meatier than the XT ones. The rear mech shares Saint's axle-end mounting for better damage resistance. It's a great idea although it slows wheel removal (not really a big deal for the intended application) and the rear mech floats around if you take the wheel out to put the bike in the car...

Brakes are hydraulic discs, naturally. 203mm rotors are standard with 160mm as an option. They're Center Lock splined items, compatible with existing XT/XTR splines. Saint uses a bigger front spline to clear a 20mm axle, so Hone offers a possible rotor size upgrade path for XT/XTR users. It's interesting that Shimano are offering a 203mm rotor on a regular front hub, given the rarity of forks warrantied for such a combination. We'd still like to see 180mm-ish rotors from Shimano, particularly on a group like Hone pitched at the big-terrain but not necessarily World Cup DH terrain rider.

The brake calipers are superficially similar to XT and Saint although the Hone units are two-piece calipers for reduced cost. A variety of front mechs are available - BB mount, top swing, bottom swing - and Dual Control shifter/brake levers are standard issue.

It looks like good stuff, and we like where Shimano are positioning Hone. It won't be available until November, though, so we'll have to see how it stacks up in real life. More pics below...

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Saint

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Shimano's high-end freeride group gets expanded for 2005. The current incarnation isn't a full group - you need to use shifters, brake levers and front mechs from elsewhere - but for 2005 all the gaps are filled in. There'll be Saint Dual Control levers as well as brake levers for those who'd rather use alternative shifters.

There'll also be new rear hubs and bottom brackets for compatibility with over-width freeride/DH frames. The new hub will be 150mm over-locknut width with a 12mm axle, with a new BB for 83mm shells so it all lines up. The existing hubs and BB will of course still be available, and the rest of the group remains unchanged.

Mechanical discs

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Down towards the inexpensive end of the market, Shimano has announced new mechanical disc brakes compatible with Center Lock splined hubs. The new brakes have adjustable pad clearance on both sides for easier set-up and are available in two models, a cheaper M465 and a lighter but still inexpensive M495. There'll also be new mid-range Center Lock hubs to go with them, offering manufacturers the possibility of speccing cheaper hubs and higher-end brakes. The new hub and rotor can also be used with the existing Deore-level hydraulic discs.

New RapidFire+

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Only mentioned in passing by Shimano but clearly there in the line-up is a pleasant surprise for anyone who's fretting about Dual Control taking over the world. These are the new-for-2005 RapidFire+ shifters, Shimano having certainly not given up on them completely. They're called M751, which puts them at XT level, and they'll be available in silver or black. Happy now?


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Discuss this story

If SRAM hadn't made their versions, I wonder if Shimano would have updated theirs? Never mind, good to see we won't all be forced down the flippyshifter route. Every time I look at one of those, it just looks like a solution looking for a problem.
Posted: 09/03/2004 09:57

It'll probably also help them to avoid getting 'Microsoft style' monopoly lawsuits.

It's a good thing though, it'll be even better if they decide to offer stand alone brake levers on XT and XTR too for people who prefer RF+, gs or have no shifters at all.
Posted: 09/03/2004 10:10

David - Microsoft style lawsuits? No, not really. Not even close. Miles off in fact.

Look, its simple. Really it is.
Shimano are market leaders because they continue to produce damn good kit at very competitive prices. Not because they're evil and have voodoo dolls of their competitors' factories with needles and swords and burning crosses sticking out of them.
Posted: 09/03/2004 10:31

The existing XT-level hydro lever is still current...

I dunno, stick up all this exciting new stuff and everyone just wants to discuss RF+ :-)
Posted: 09/03/2004 10:34

saint with shimano flopshift? just wondering how many other 'freeriders' have broken brake levers and shifters when casing a jump/drop, it gets expensive, even moreso when you have to replace both the shifter AND brake lever because they're stupidly an all in one unit.

shimano? bah... i'm going sram.
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:02

The thinking is that they're actually less likely to break than regular levers because they can move in all directions. So rather than them bending or breaking you just pick your bike up in a different gear to when you crashed it :-)
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:07

Mike - h'mm. Still I'm all for burning the spinning jennys so what do I know.

It's good to see innovation but not at the expense of sacrificing a successful product line. To be fair to Shimano, they seem to have a history of long product support (e.g. 8 speed).

It's fine to lead the market or even create the market but that doesn't mean you always know best.

If this was STW, I'd be asking 'what shifters for my singlespeed?' but thankfully it isn't.
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:09

I toyed with joining two shifters together with a couple of bits of cable and a big spring for psychological benefit on a single. But never got around to it.

I have to say I quite like DC for a lot of things, it's only when it gets tight and techy that I become averse. But then I like choice too :-)
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:18

What we all need is... more bikes :)
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:36

Well, the Big S's decision to continue with the RF+ has scuppered my plans to corner the market by buying the final production run of the RFs and then blowing-up the SRAM factory so I could make charge unwitting riders extortionate amounts for a shifter and make my fortune. Mmmmuuuhhhaaaa!

Tend to agreed with Al though – what! – the flippy is a solution to a non-extant problem. I know two riders who have this set-up and still use the removable thumb shifter!

Still, the HONE kit looks rather nice.

Posted: 09/03/2004 11:46

Crap name though, 'HONE' wtf is that supposed to mean.
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:50

Do you not possess a dictionary? It means to improve or sharpen.
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:54

Two questions about the Hone.

How heavy & how much?

Looks nice though - are those axle mounted mechs rapid rise or standard?
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:59

Ok, so that's 3 questions.
Posted: 09/03/2004 11:59

I know what 'hone' means, what I meant was that it was a crap name. (good point, well argued)
Posted: 09/03/2004 12:08

If you know what it means, why ask "wtf is that supposed to mean"? ;-)

Wendy, weights no idea, price LXish, mechs low normal.
Posted: 09/03/2004 12:15

Glad to see that Shimano has finally released the full details of it's plan for future groups.
Personally I uite like flippy shifting for XC, and don't give a toss about Dh so they can fight their own battles for dedicated component groups.

HONE: Cool name. A non race name for a non race groupset...

As for innovation, bring it on man, ludites are a dying breed, heres a shovel
Posted: 09/03/2004 12:27

Yes, Shimano's monopoly of gears for bikes is purely on merit. They don't really spend any money on advertising, and their products are the best available, at a reasonable price. The way the cycle market works, if a competitor (eg SRAM) can provide better parts at a lower price, then they will increase their market share.

With Microsoft, this is not the case. In a typically American way they spend huge ammounts on advertising, rather than relying on the merits of their products. They have a true monopoly because it is unviable to not use their products if you have a PC. If you have a PC, for the vast majority of users, you have to have MS Windows. The PC software market has become totally dependant on Microsoft, so they can do whatever they like.

In the cycling market, this would be equivalent to Shimano finding a way to prevent people from using or fitting equipment from other manufacturers on their bikes. ie, "If you own a bike, you have to use Shimano" - at the moment this is not true, you can have just as good a bike without a single Shimano part.
Posted: 09/03/2004 12:50

Being a semi-luddite im a bit confused by all this rapid rise malarky. are those new RF+ shifters compatable with a standard rear mech?
Posted: 09/03/2004 13:14

I think so, all the shifter does is pull or release cable. It's the mech that determines whether pulling or releasing cable shifts the gears up or down.
Posted: 09/03/2004 13:32

why the heck would'nt they be compatible??!
Posted: 09/03/2004 13:33

you could attach the shifters to vbrakes to make a drag break with 9 different strengths!
Posted: 09/03/2004 13:46

Low-normal should actually be easier to understand than regular mechs.

Press the thumb lever for a slower/easier gear.
Press the finger lever for a faster/harder gear.
With Low-Normal RapidRise, the same rule applies for front and rear mechs.

If shifters & mechs had been designed that way from the start we'd all be just using them without complaining.




Inbred-Scott-Gerbil-man,
The removeable thumb shifter on dual-control is there if you need/want it, and if you don't want it you can remove it.

You seem to be suggesting that if someone chooses to use the thumb shifter, that it is somehow proof that the shimano design is in some way inadequate.
Personally I reckon the shimano guys have done a damn good job of designing a product that is not only quite revolutionary, but also offers the rider a choice in how the units can be used.

Choice is good. I'll continue to choose rapidfire, but then that's because I'm used to it. Hurrah to Shimano for not just inventing new products, but also for supporting existing and older ones.
Posted: 09/03/2004 14:29

Gary

I'm not suggesting the design is flawed or inadequate in anyway. In fact, the technology is old hat as road bikes have had dual control ergo levers for 10 year or so (don't lambaste me for getting the number of years wrong this is not STW!).

My point is that I, personally, didn't see the need for the redesign. The thumb shifter is perhaps an indication the Shimano were unsure but I agree that choice is a good thing.

The cynic would say the redesign is just so Shimano could sell more groups set and tie the cyclist to Shimano equipment, i.e. new hub disc interface, lever, etc.

Make of it what you will but the fact that Shimano will continue to support the RF system is perhaps an indication of the overall acceptance (or not) of the new system. In fact, I personally think the dual lever system is flawed because it forces you to choose Shimano. In a free market, a rider may well choose Shimano but when you are told this is what you'll have to accept the natural response is to resist - it's human nature. That was perhaps where the marketing guys at Shimano may have failed.

Do I like Shimano and do I run their groups sets? Yes. Would I change? Probabaly not.
Posted: 09/03/2004 16:43

The thing that puts me off of rapid rise/low normal is not whether I use my thumb or my finger to upshift but the fact that with it I cannot downshift several gears with one press. If I need to downshift and slow down rapidly I don't want to have to waggle my brake lever like a loon in order to achieve it!

There is also inertia because we'll have to relearn shifting directions. Having both shifters operating in the same direction makes sense but it's not what we're used to. It may seem like a poor argument to resist change but it seems to be why electrical engineers are still using conventional current...

As for the extra buttons available on flippy shifters, well the initial descriptions of the new shifters described the thumb shifters as crutches for those who were not fully ready to enter the brave new world of flippy shifting. Shimano seemed to be certain that after a while few riders would need them and would use the shifters "properly" instead so it isn't just Inbred-Scott-Gerbil-man who makes that assumption.

Personally I'd like to give flippy shifters a go but seeing as I've just got some new Hope disc brakes I don't think I'll be doing so any time soon. Still I'll keep my opinions on a theoretical level until I have a chance to judge the shifters properly for myself.
Posted: 09/03/2004 16:44

What I would quite like to see are mini flippy shifters which sit where the index finger trigger sits on RF+ shifters. Like SRAM's new shifters but with only one bi-directional trigger.

That way I'd be able to change gear in either direction without having to unwrap a thumb from around the bars and the shifters and brake levers would continue to be separate units.

Does that sound like an interesting system to anyone else?
Posted: 09/03/2004 16:49

"In fact, I personally think the dual lever system is flawed because it forces you to choose Shimano"

Not sure I quite follow here. Could you elaborate?

"it seems to be why electrical engineers are still using conventional current..."

Aye, it's about time we followed the rest of Europe and had our AC going the other way :-)
Posted: 09/03/2004 16:51

"Aye, it's about time we followed the rest of Europe and had our AC going the other way :-)"

It was a right pain, going from being taught electron current at school to conventional current at university. My school physics teacher drummed into us that conventional current was based on incorrect principles and then I got to university and discovered that 90% of everybody ignored this fact because otherwise they'd need to print new textbooks!
Posted: 09/03/2004 16:54

Mini-flippy: interesting idea, although one of the reasons I quite like DC is because I like to brake with my index finger. I'd like to try something with a downshift lever turned through 90degrees so it operates kind of along the bars rather than across it if you see what I mean. My thumb seems to swing in a different arc to that expected by underbar shifters...
Posted: 09/03/2004 16:59

The current thing is just practicality, though, isn't it? If you're actually trying to make something work it's easiest to think of it behaving as it appears to behave rather than worrying about which way the electrons are going...
Posted: 09/03/2004 17:01

Hope Mini levers seem to encourage leaving your index fingers on the shifters and using your middle fingers for breaking which is probably why I thought of mini flippers ((c), TM, Chris Lupton 2003). Not having to unhook my thumb is the main reason I'd like to give full flippy shifting a shot as well.

As for conventional/electron current I don't think that practicality really comes into it. The original current flow decision was arbitrary, I think. If I recall, certain parts of semiconductor theory are made far more complex due to the use of convetional current.
Posted: 09/03/2004 17:08

I'm coming from a business strategy point. Shimano were moving from pretty much a mix and match system to a Shimano only system. So your only choice is to go with Shimano if you are running a full groupset to change. Maybe not a massive issue when comparing, for example, which disc brake perform better, it's personal choice. But when you are tied to purchasing Shimano because to move away cost too much, it would kind of grates with me.

My point is that Shimano previously gave you a choice, however, until very recently the the belief was that this choice would end. Ergo, Shimano lose customers and the consumer switches to SRAM.

A personal opinion only and there are a multitude of agruments the other way.
Posted: 09/03/2004 17:44

I quit an electrical engineering course, so I shall bow to your superior knowledge as regards current, Chris ;-)

"But when you are tied to purchasing Shimano because to move away cost too much, it would kind of grates with me."

Aye. Curse them and their reasonably-priced, well-performing components :-)

One day someone else'll actually have a full groupset offering with which to compete. SRAM'll have to buy a couple more companies yet, though...
Posted: 09/03/2004 18:50

LOL!! too funny Mike.

AS afar as I recall shimano were never trying to monopolise the market, they are the market and it's incredibly difficult to monopolise yourself when yuo're spread so thin already.

AS for choice, it was always there, i think most were just toopig headed to actually see through the mist
Posted: 09/03/2004 18:58

What kind of bikes do you reckon will be specing a Hone groupset?
Posted: 09/03/2004 19:01

stuff like a Spesh Enduroor a Cannondale Jekyll with JAke fork. Most bikes with XT level componentry will probably have a 'HONE' Version for the ruff and tuff stuff
Posted: 09/03/2004 19:13

Probably appear on freeridey bikes that aren't expensive enough to run Saint and on all-day rugged bikes that don't want to be freeride heavy but could do with being fairly stout and durable. I could see it on an Enduro, for example.
Posted: 09/03/2004 19:14

at least it comes in black so will actually go with stuff unlike my LX shifters how many other bike bits are dark bluey grey
Posted: 09/03/2004 19:53

I had an idea for a groupset designed for Yorkshire mud. Its a single 28 tooth ring at the front so no need for a shifter or mech (less to clag up/go wrong) and a 9 speed rear cassette with wide ratios to compensate, say 12 - 36 or 38 teeth at the back with a mech thats compatible. Comes with it's own sealed cable to the rear mech and RF+ style shifter.

Personally, I never use the big ring on the front with the smaller gears anyway (usually freewheeling at that speed) and only in extreme situations use the 22 - 32 ratio on the back and would happily forego the higher gears for a lower maintenance setup.

Anyone want to pitch this to a manufacturer? I can't be arsed.
Posted: 09/03/2004 21:06

Made the switch to Sram, find it to be more my style, like the fact you can keep your hands on the bar, and only remove one finger to control braking. It'sa personal choice, but given that Shimano very rarely make mistakes when releasing product to the public, I'll bet most of this stuff will work faultlessly.

I'd make this observation: High end SRAM works just as well as high end Shim, but middle range, and low end, it's all shimano, for very good reason. Plus the Deore Hurdo brake is class.
Posted: 09/03/2004 21:15

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